Episode Transcript
[00:00:09] Speaker A: You're listening to Selling the Dream.
[00:00:11] Speaker B: This isn't an interview and we're not.
[00:00:13] Speaker A: Journalists, but each week we'll ask our guests to open up and share their secrets to business success.
Let's have a conversation and have some fun.
Hey, everybody. Welcome to Selling the Dream, a podcast for people who are incredibly bored and have nothing else better to do but to sit around and listen to a bunch of people talking about success, talking about leadership, talking about entrepreneurship, sales, as always, joined by my.
My good friend Joe Iredell from Carlsbad, coming to us live from Carlsbad, California. Originally a Delco boy.
Joe, how are you? What's new?
[00:00:52] Speaker C: Good, man, good. I think that description is basically every podcast, right? Just bored people listening to other people talk about stuff.
[00:01:03] Speaker A: I guess it's better than sports radio, in my opinion. Like, that's, that's when I listen to.
[00:01:08] Speaker B: Them.
[00:01:11] Speaker C: You know, I can't listen to sports radio. I'm. I've become disenchanted with sports in general. Other than the Eagles, man, just everybody talking about other guys doing stuff. I don't know, man, not into it anymore.
[00:01:28] Speaker A: I just think it's all just like most media. It's designed to get people worked up and it has very little basis in truth and, and more of it's all just sensationalization, you know, and it goes for the important media and the sports media as well. So I listen to podcasts, I listen to dopes and what they had to say about things, and sometimes I learned something, you know, sometimes I don't, you know? So hopefully people learn something with this podcast, though.
[00:01:53] Speaker C: Let's talk more action, bro. That's what I'm about.
[00:01:56] Speaker A: All right, so I'm gonna let you go. I'm gonna hang up and. No, I'm kidding. Let's talk, man. Let's talk.
[00:02:01] Speaker C: Let's get out there, get it.
[00:02:03] Speaker A: We have an awesome show today.
So our guest today, I have been eager to. To. To have him join us for a while and someone who, I don't know if he even remembers, but one of the very first people I met in the mortgage business.
And I'll share that story here after the introduction. But before we go any further, I want to introduce the one and only al Perry from Century 21 Advantage Gold. But more importantly, a leader, a thoughtful author and Facebook guru.
I look forward to his posts and every single day. And a long time industry veteran and associate. Al, thank you so much for hanging out with us today.
[00:03:00] Speaker B: Hey, I appreciate being here. Good meeting you guys. Joe. Meeting Joe and Ken, getting to see you again. Always, always good to collaborate with good people.
[00:03:10] Speaker A: So do you. Do you know the story that. That you were one of the first people that I met in the industry? And do you remember when.
[00:03:16] Speaker B: I remember meeting you a long time ago through Mason, who Dell.
And I think. I think he was, if I recall, and I could have this incorrect, but I want to say the, the ink on your business card was probably not dry yet, and he brought you around to the office just to introduce you and had an opportunity to meet you.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say I don't know how long you've been in the mortgage business. I know you've been in the business a while now, but I'd have to say that was probably. Is that maybe 2004, 2005, is that about right?
[00:03:53] Speaker A: I think it was 2002 is when we got in that Partners Group financial. I'm sure you remember, right?
[00:04:00] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:04:01] Speaker A: My first company. And yeah, so I was shadowing Mason the legend, the legendary Mason Hudel, who, rest in peace, we lost him this year.
And Mason, you know, just taking me around like I'm just a little monkey getting dragged around by the big monkey showing me where you know the ropes and who to talk to. And. And yeah, we were down here, South Philly office, and. And he introduced me to you and.
And yeah, man, that was a long time ago. I can't. I can't believe how long, you know, how long all of us. And Joe and I were just talking today about, you know, we've been around the block now, man.
[00:04:40] Speaker C: Somebody asked me this morning, they're like, how long have you been doing this? I'm like, Holy crap, 25 years.
[00:04:48] Speaker B: 25.
[00:04:49] Speaker C: That's a. 25 years now. Like, oh, quarter of a century and.
[00:04:53] Speaker A: Still learning every single freaking. I know it's the crazy.
[00:04:56] Speaker C: Like it's the first week.
[00:05:00] Speaker B: It is kind of surreal because I still kind of identify as the new guy in the room, you know, and maybe it's that white belt mentality, you know, that we like to have, you know, try to surround yourself with folks who know more than you do and, and, you know, as time goes and as you learn more and you become the person with a lot of the wisdom, sometimes it's a little more difficult because people start looking to you to be that person where, you know, where you're the mover and shaker or you're the person who's supposed to know everything.
But if you, if you let that get to your head, and you don't continue to surround yourself with folks who, you know, inspire you and, and help you grow in, in different aspects of your business.
And that's why I think I still look at myself like the rookie.
So it's hard to think of myself. It's been, it's 29 years, it'll be 30 years, you know, know come 20, 26 for me. And then I grew up in a real estate office. My mother was in real estate since 1977. I was six years old. My father passed, he was the breadwinner in the family. You know, my mother was a stay at home mom. She was a legal secretary prior to having kids, but took them a while to have kids. So what, you know, they had put a couple bucks away and, and he was kind of coming up through the stock exchange and getting a few promotions. So, so she became a stay at home mom.
And so for my six years, my brother was a newborn and then, and my father passed away suddenly and she didn't have any savings, they didn't have any, had no cushion. You know, they were planning on that. So she decided she want to go back to being a legal secretary because that was going to be a very rigid job. She worked for, you know, defense, you know, folks, you know, criminal, criminal attorneys. And so there was a lot of preparation, a lot of deadline stuff. So she got in an easy job, you know, real estate where there's very flexible schedule and unlimited schedule, unlimited earning potential. Isn't that what they promise us in this business? Yeah. So, but you know, she was still able to be a lunch mother at school, you know, something that she had, I was in first grade, something that she had signed up for. You know, she was still able to do the school trips with me, you know, to go to Washington D.C. or wherever we were going off to. And you know, she was still able to prioritize her schedule and you know, and do some of the stuff that she may have had to, you know, had things been different for her, she would have had the opportunity to do as a stay at home mom. But she wasn't willing to compromise, you know, certain components of that. So real estate offered her that. But I, you know, my brother, he, he's, you know, my grandmother moved in with us and my bro, you know, she would be able to watch my brother, you know, because he was so young at the time. But, but my mother would pick me up for school and off to the real estate office I went pretty much, you know, that was, that was my, my evolution. I'd be the kid doing the homework at the desk at the real estate office that an agent should have been in, but was, Was, you know, didn't show up to, to, to prospect. So, so they, So I got to use the unused desk doing my homework. So, yeah, I've been. When I really think about it, I've been in a real estate office probably more like, you know, 47 years let up, you know, let alone 30. You know, the first 17 years, you know, it was almost like I was a apprentice.
[00:08:22] Speaker A: And you feel, and you still feel like you're the new guy. I love, Yeah, I love that, that analogy. And I, I, I've always said, like, up until a couple years ago, I really feel like it was a couple years ago. You know, I'm 47 now. I was the youngest loan officer I knew for a while. For a long time, I was the youngest. Now there's some young guys out there and, you know, and younger than me anyway, and they're doing pretty good.
But, but yeah, it was, it was a weird experience. Started to realize, like, like you said, like, you know, you, you have.
I see. I do this every time now. I'm gonna put a pin in that, right, if you like that phrase. I hate that phrase.
I'm gonna come back to that in a second. First, before we go any further, I forgot about the two truths in a lie. I always forget about the two truths in a lie. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna go with the two truths and lie. Then we'll get back to being the young guy and seeking where, as you get older, where are you going to find your, your wisdom, your inspiration? So I'm going to come back to that in a minute, but two truths and a lie. Give me three facts.
Two of them are true, one of them's a lie.
[00:09:18] Speaker B: All right?
[00:09:19] Speaker A: And we're going to try and figure out, by the end, maybe you'll drop a few hints without knowing it.
[00:09:22] Speaker B: Okay, I'm going to stay in the music lane for two truths and lie, because the real estate lane would be too, too obvious.
So two truths and a lie. I can name all the members of the Village People. And when I say I can name all the members of the Village People, I mean, not the cop and the Indian, not by occupation. Their actual names.
Their actual names. And, and, and you can, you can go, you can Google. Google. Check this.
[00:09:52] Speaker A: All right, all right.
[00:09:52] Speaker B: I don't feel like.
[00:09:53] Speaker A: That's not the line, so that's one.
[00:09:56] Speaker B: We'll see. We'll see.
[00:09:57] Speaker C: It's Way too specific.
[00:09:59] Speaker B: So. Too specific. Right.
Two that I've. That I've seen Barry Manilow in concert seven times.
Only once with my wife or. Or a girl. All the other times with guys, you know, my buddies. And then. And then the third one is that I've hung out with and partied with the Sugar Hill Gang and Grandmaster Melly Mel after hours at the lagoon in. In Delco, you know, on the party bus, so. On the tour bus.
So those are my three. One of those is not. One of those is not.
[00:10:32] Speaker A: Actually, I'm gonna say this right now.
So far, those are the three best answers we've been given. I don't know which ones a lot, but hands down, I hope they're all true.
[00:10:46] Speaker B: This is true.
[00:10:49] Speaker A: I want to go back to you, something you said, which I'm experiencing myself and I always. What I love about this platform for me, and I know Joe and I have shared this before as well, is like, it's as much about us and learning from people and having these conversations. Like, it's so selfish, seemingly to me, like, hey, I'm just going to ask questions that are going to help me, and hopefully other people hear it and it helps them. But as you get older, talk about Mason, my other mentor, good friend John Conis, who passed away this year as well, you know, that you can go to and turn to for advice, for help, for perspective, for wisdom. That population has shrunk.
And now here we are in our 40s and early 50s. Like, where do you go now, Al? Your mom, who I know was a wealth of knowledge in the industry and a titan, to be honest, in the industry, somebody that I'm sure you leaned on. Who do you lean on now for, for that kind of stuff?
[00:11:51] Speaker B: Well, I was pretty lucky early on. Even my mother, she pushed me out of the nest. We worked together.
You know, she passed away in 2020, and we worked together during all those years, but she really wanted me to get perspective beyond what she could provide. And even though she was a treasure chest of wisdom and was always there when I needed a guiding hand, you know, we also, we also had some friction. I mean, we respected each other, but we were built differently in certain ways.
And so we would butt heads in a, you know, in a respectful way. But I also think that my mother at times could show, you could say, hey, you know, the, the elixir that you need to. To solve your problem is over there.
And. And I would sometimes fight her on that because, you know, sometimes you, you know, you want to take Your own path.
[00:12:53] Speaker A: What do you mean by that? What do you mean by the elixir that you need?
[00:12:55] Speaker B: Well, not the elixir. You know, the elixir is the wrong thing. The antidote to what? What, you know, that's probably the better word. The antidote to what? To what ails you is right here.
And, and, and sometimes I would need to experience that myself.
So you know, and, and you know, I certainly learned a ton from her. But she was also the person, I think that would grow most frustrated with me as she would try to mentor me and, and, and then we would do, we had different ways. You know, my mother was, my mother would go on a listing appointment and she'd be on that listing appointment for four or five hours sometimes and she'd come back and she would know the folks life story.
And I, I mean it's something I've actually as I, as I go back and kind of unpack my mother and, and, and who she was.
One of the things that is most endearing of her, like her client base, even folks she didn't know very well at the beginning of their relationships would become dear, dear friends. And you see this in real estate often, you see it in mortgage often, you know, because you kind of go through the trials and tribulations of the, you know, of what is an emotional journey for many. But my mother would come home from listing appointments and she would know, you know, who had a child that passed away, whose husband was an alcoholic.
[00:14:15] Speaker A: She would remember all this.
[00:14:16] Speaker B: Oh, she, she knew all that. She was such a caring person that those folks would see the genuine character in her and she, they would open up to her. And it wasn't a sales technique. For some people that are in real estate or in sales in general, they use that connection as a sales technique. It's like a design. Like it's not, not that they're trying to do harm with it, they're just trying to, you know, if, if you can put your guard down and open up to me, maybe we can help you, you know, better accomplish your goals. But you know, so many times when people talk to a salesperson, they got their guard up. You know, it's hey, he's in sales, he's commission based, you know.
[00:14:57] Speaker C: You know, it's just genuine. It's just genuine. You're like trying to break them down.
[00:15:04] Speaker B: Basically. My mother would be like the most loyal and caring person and she would go and she would get walked on a lot. I mean, quite frankly, not everybody would treat her with the respect that she would treat them.
And so that was one of the points of friction for me, wasn't that she was such a kind and caring and loyal person. I love that. I identified with that. I followed that lead.
It was that when. When the road wasn't, you know, when it became apparent that the other people didn't see the relationship in the same way, she was like a glutton for punishment. She would just go back and I. You know, and take the beating, so to speak. The emotional beating, the. The. You know, And. And. And that would drive me crazy, you know, And. And. And so, you know, sometimes I would come at things, and I would just need to get. So she would. She would want me to get different perspectives at a very early stage. So, like, when. When. When the ink wasn't dry on my license, she. You know, she signed. She was like, okay. You know, I was like, okay, what do I do? I showed up for work the first day. She said, I want you to sign up for Alan Dom's advanced sales class over at Temple Real Estate Institute. You know, and I didn't know who Alan was at the time, you know.
Yeah, so Alan. Alan's been a great mentor in my career. We've never worked. We've never worked directly together, you know, for the same firm or anything, but, you know, real estate's a cooperative business, and maybe that's a little bit that we've. What we've gotten away from in more recent years is the spirit of cooperation.
But it's always been a cooperative business, and there's great people that are attracted. I mean, there's some knuckleheads in this business, but there's great people that are attracted to this business.
And if you have your eyes open and you're willing to learn, there are folks you can learn from. And Alan was always one of those guys. So I signed up for his class. And what was interesting was, you know, those classes were for broker credits, which was ironic because I barely had real estate agent credits at the time.
But everybody in that class. Nobody was there specifically for the broker's credits. They were there because Alan was teaching it.
[00:17:17] Speaker A: It was him, right? He was titan.
[00:17:19] Speaker B: He was a guy, you know, he nar used to have the.
You know, they had their Realtor magazine. They would circulate. He was on the COVID of the magazine, you know, I think the previous year, you know, for just his general production levels, like amazing production levels, and the niche market that he had defined. So I signed up for the class. I went in, and everybody in the class was a heavy hitter. But me, I was the only person in the class. I think I had like one or two sales under my belt at the time.
[00:17:49] Speaker A: And so meeting people in that class that you still talk to today.
[00:17:53] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, 100. Kathy Conway was in that class.
You know, I don't know if Kathy was, you know, with Prudential, Fox and Roach for years. Berkshire Hathaway, our son Pat Conway's was. Was there. The ev.
You know, there was. There was other folks that were. There were folks from.
Was folks from Maryland, folks from Delaware, New Jersey. Because Alan was always pretty big at the shore. You know, he owned real estate down the shore, so he knew a lot of real estate brokers down there. So it was folks that weren't even. Didn't even have a Pennsylvania license. They just wanted, you know, because, you know, good habits and good routines are, you know, they're. They're. They don't know state lines. You know, real estate law might know state lines, but that's a good point. Yeah. Good habits and good routines. So these people were in the class.
And so here I was.
So it was from day one, there were people like him. And then Alan said, hey, here's what I want you to do. He loved it. He knew my mother. They had served on professional standards committee together when Alan was president of the Greater Philadelphia association of Realtors. My mother served, and she did something on an anti graffiti campaign that the Realtors used to have back then. And so Alan would speak highly of. Of his relationship with my mother. So, you know, he loved the fact that I was the white belt in the room learning and, and, and that I was networking with all these other class. And then his whole class was, you know, one of the backdrops of his class was that he would highlight. I don't know if you remember the Howard Britton cassette tapes you used to get the Star Makers program.
[00:19:37] Speaker A: That was in Amway, not in real estate, but it's the same thing.
[00:19:41] Speaker B: Star Power program. They would. They would mail you out the cassette tapes or the DVDs or CDs, I should say. And it was. It was always Howard Britton. And he would be interviewing, you know, his. And, and one of Howard's great lines was, you know, get out of judgment and get into curiosity. And. And so he would. In order to be interviewed by him, you had to do like 20 million. I mean, this is back in the.
You know, it was 96 or 96, I think, when I signed up for his class.
So you were doing 20 million in 96 plus, I think that that was the threshold, Maybe it was 25 million to get interviewed by him. But he would have people who did reos, he would have people that did luxury housing. He'd have people like, you know, who did nothing but condo. And everyone seemed to have kind of different niches that they kind of focused on. But, you know, I just started surrounding myself with, with that type of information. Maybe not even those people specifically, but that type of information that I would try to put myself into. So that's what I was listening to in my car. You know, he's talking about sports talk radio.
[00:20:48] Speaker A: Yeah, it was before podcast. You had cassettes, right?
[00:20:51] Speaker B: I mean, I listened to the. I used to listen when I was in college and when I was in high school.
[00:20:57] Speaker A: Where'd you go to college? Real quick?
[00:20:59] Speaker B: Temple. I went, I went Philadelphia Textile and Science, right out of high school, went to West Catholic High school and Philadelphia College, Textile and Science up on Henry Avenue. What's at Jefferson University now?
Freshman, sophomore year, and then four years at Temple University. I transferred, was on the six year program because I bartended full time.
[00:21:19] Speaker A: Yeah, Temple's cool. It's where all the kids that couldn't get into Penn State went. Yeah, yeah. Just kidding.
[00:21:25] Speaker B: So my brother would, my brother would love that. He's the Penn State alone.
[00:21:29] Speaker A: So. So you're, you're listening to these tapes and, and that's kind of where you're finding at a young age, you're realizing, hey, I can gain wisdom while if as long as my eyes are open to the opportunity, I can gain wisdom in all these places. And, you know, you feel like as you get older, you feel like that's still serving you today.
[00:21:45] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, 100%. And the other thing Alan said was, you know, sign up for a committee over at the Board of Realtors. I want you to get networking over at the Board of Realtors.
So I signed up for the education committee.
You know, I went, I met the, the executive officer. Her name was Jerry Cook, over at the Greater Philadelphia association of Realtors. Said Alan Dom sent me, told me I should sign up for a committee.
They had a spot on the Education Committee at the time, and they put me in there. I got to meet John Orange. He ran. He was the chair of the committee, Orange Brothers Real Estate. John's a developer, you know, real estate instructor. He teaches down at Temple Unit, Temple Real Estate Institute. Got the network with him. Met so many people. Louise d' Alessandro was one of the past presidents. She's a partner broker of record over at Alant Missahicken, Realtors, you know, very active in the board. You know, got to. Got to network with her. Met my now partner, Ann Rubin, and Bill Lublin. They weren't partners back then, but they were past presidents of the Greater Philadelphia association of Realtors.
Well, Bill was a past president and was coming up through the line.
You know, those folks ended up becoming partnerships that I entered into down the road as I got to know the integrity and the character of the people, you know, and so I did a lot of networking within the board. Got to meet guys like Mike McCann, who was on. On. On the board of directors. You know, he was somebody that was, you know, producing at a really high level, you know, getting into rooms where the movers and shakers were. And, you know, there's. There's also other people in those rooms, too, you know, and sometimes they have short shelf lives in those rooms. You know, any room that you get in on committees and stuff, sometimes you'd find, you know, there was someone else who just signed up for it, and they were kind of going through the motions, and. And that can be a little frustrating in association work because you're like, what are we doing here?
You know, because I don't. I don't really have time to waste, but I want to. I want to do good things. I want to leave a good imprint. I want to help the industry evolve, help the professionalism evolve, but also help influence the industry that we serve. You know, we're always advocating for, you know, private property rights through the Board of Realtors. So you'll find titans of real estate in the association of Realtors. So I got involved back then, and some of those relationships. Lindsey Johnson, broker of Common Ground Real Estate.
Frank Jacobini and I work together now for Bill Festa. These are all competitors of mine. We're. We. You know, we were competitive. We could be on a listing appointment competing against each other.
But we had these organic friendships that grew through our association work. And I got. I got to pick their brains.
[00:24:31] Speaker A: I think part of it, Al, just knowing what I know about you, you know, from. From afar, you know, your.
[00:24:37] Speaker B: Your.
[00:24:37] Speaker A: Your commitment to contribution, you know, has that took you. You know, you're learning this, seeing all these people giving their time and their talent, their energy to the industry that you obviously love, you know, and that. That drew you to become. You were the GPAR president yourself, right? What year. What years did you serve as GPAR president?
[00:24:56] Speaker B: So 2005, I served my first term as president of Greater Philadelphia, and at the time, Alan Dom and I were the two youngest presidents of the Greater Philadelphia Association. We were separated by a couple months. That was always our running joke. He said I should never, you know, never put you in touch with the board, you know, because I think. I think I forget who was a few months old. Maybe he was a few months younger than me or I was when he became president. When he became president. So obviously, you know, he's older than me, you know, presently, but. But at. In his year as president, so it didn't really matter because a few years later, Heather Petrone, who's with Berkshire Hathaway now, she became president. She was younger than both of us. So Heather, you know, Heather was. Is the undisputed champion of the youngest president at this point. But that was great. And then I certainly asked me to Serve again in 2009, there was an opening because someone had to step off of the line because of a personal issue that they had to deal with.
And that created a vacancy. And so that, you know, anyone who's involved in association work, what normally happens is you don't just become president.
Normally you serve in an entry level. Normally you serve on committee, you serve on committees, or you do something, you do something. And usually, you know, you might get a. An invite to be on the board of directors, a little bit larger of a body than you know, but that's the governing body of the association. And then you. Depending on your work, you don't have to evolve from there. A lot of people just stay board of director level. That's the level of contribution they want to make. But they're always looking to build their leadership team, usually off of their board of directors. So they'd say if they see something in you, that they think you'd be a good represent, good representative of the industry. Because when I'm going out to represent Philadelphia Realtors, I'm representing all the Realtors as president, you know, so it's a. It's a huge. It's a huge burden, you know, because you're. You're carrying the water. For many good people in our industry who do what it is we do.
[00:27:09] Speaker A: And you're trying to maintain a real business at the same time. You know what I mean? Like, the exact amount of volunteer, the amount of time that you're giving to the. To the community, at the same time, trying to continue to maintain your own level of production is a challenge. You know what I mean?
[00:27:23] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. No, for. For sure. And that one of the good things, and you'll hear that a lot with association Work. But one of the great things I've learned with association work is it doesn't fall on me. I mean, it does fall on you. You gotta bring something to the table. But when an association is working well, it's working well because of the collaboration of many. So even when I was president of the board, it wasn't like I was making the decisions. I had to go to all the meetings, I had to do all the stuff.
Truthfully, that was done at the granular level. That was done at any point by professional staff. That was done by many volunteers that serve on the committee levels or for task force or people that were in think tanks that would help set the direction. That was done by a strategic plan that the association had. You know, you just get to be kind of the mouthpiece of the organization. It's a very important job, but it's not a job where you have to be all, you know, and, and be in all the meetings and do all the stuff. A lot of the, a lot of that kind of gets identified with you. But really it's the granular work of many. I've been really who I identify with in association work is the worker be. That's always what I always wanted to be. I never wanted to be president of my local association.
[00:28:36] Speaker A: And you know what they say, Al, Some people have greatness thrust upon them. Right?
[00:28:40] Speaker B: Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. But so yeah, that, so when I got asked to do a second term, it was really cool because you know, you, you enter, you usually you do treasurer, then you do vice president, then you do president elect and then you do president.
So usually your path up to President is a 3, 4, 5 year journey depending on the association work. And each one is an election of your peers. So if you, you know, you might. Just because you're vice president don't mean you'll be voted to president elect, you know, because you know, your body of work might not have warranted that or your business or you might say, hey look, this was great.
I got to take a step back. I'm not able to make the commitment to go to the next pace.
So, so that's, you know, so. But then when. That's a number a year journey. So doing that twice was kind of really cool. I didn't have to go through all the chairs the second time. I got to get fast tracked because they pulled me in off of the past president, you know, group and said we need you to plug you in at president elect for the day.
[00:29:42] Speaker A: You already had your sea legs under you Already did it once.
[00:29:45] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:29:45] Speaker A: You didn't have to risk, you didn't have to make new relationships and do all that stuff.
[00:29:49] Speaker B: But Greater Philadelphia has 3,000, you know, almost 3,000 members. And, and so that's a lot of Realtors that, that you're speaking on behalf of. And then in 2023, I got to serve as president of Pennsylvania association of Realtors, 38,000 Realtors.
[00:30:07] Speaker A: You were the president of Pennsylvania association of Realtors, Pennsylvania?
[00:30:11] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So when, when you serve at the local level. So when I was president elect back in 2004 of my local, the state board of directors is made up of local appointees. So Greater Philadelphia, based on the size of your board locally, they'll say, okay, I forget what the formula is, but maybe it's for like every 150 members that the local association has the Realtor members, primary Realtor members, you might get one appointment to the state board. Yeah, so, so the local gets to pick who's going to be our representative at the state. So of course you get the president elect and president. You're most definitely going to be one of the appointments that, this, that the, that the local sense.
[00:30:54] Speaker A: So for anybody listening that wants to become president of the Pennsylvania association of Realtors, I'll just laid out the blueprint for you. I hope you appreciate that.
[00:31:02] Speaker B: Yeah, switch gears.
[00:31:03] Speaker A: If it's cool. I want to talk a little bit about. And again, one of the things that I found that really attracted me to you is, you know, social media is a, is a place where so much, so much toxicity, it's become a. And people call it the necessary evil. People hate it, but they do it anyway. Some people, some people are on Facebook, but they have aliases so that nobody knows who they really are. This is one guy, Kevin Johnson, who's constantly like liking my stuff.
[00:31:33] Speaker C: And I heard, I heard he's a really good dude though, but whatever, you.
[00:31:39] Speaker A: Know, a little creepy, but he's cool, right? No, Facebook profile is always a bad sign anyway, looking at like, like you were writing on social media and that platform that you chose. First of all, your writing style is, is, is terrific. And, and I, I enjoy these long forms, thoughtful posts.
When did that start? And, and tell me a little bit about that as far as, like, you know, why you find it important and to engage in that kind of stuff.
[00:32:12] Speaker B: So it didn't start with real estate.
You know, I joined social media. I think it was 2009. You know, I got my Facebook. I didn't have the mind. I never had a MySpace. I wasn't that early adopted, but I did, I think I joined in 2008 or nine.
And you know, I made the decision pretty early on that if I was going to be putting anything on social media that it would be something positive and uplifting.
I'm not an eternal optimist. A lot of people think I am based on some of the stuff I might share.
[00:32:43] Speaker A: Well, you just, you've been doing a lot of work on yourself, which is a big part of it.
[00:32:47] Speaker B: Yeah. And that's actually where it came from. And you know, I would just do the occasional shares and I didn't really do the long form stuff unless I really had something I wanted to speak about. There are a few posts that will come up, you know, in my memories that I'll be like, wow, I remember writing that and it was a long form post, but it was just kind of a one off on something I felt passionate about.
But I started doing, I guess it was around2016 or 17, I started journaling and it was really, it had nothing to do with social media, just a personal journal.
And I, I started journaling about mental health. I was working, I was seeing a mental health professional for, you know, from 2012 through 2019, just for some, you know, deep rooted stuff that kind of kind of bubbled up and, and was impacting the quality of my life. You know, childhood traumas that, you know, were kind of unresolved and, and, and it was not until I had kids, you know, I thought I had kind of handled that stuff. You know, I, you know, I was always goal driven, I was always passionate, I was always a strong community member, you know, but I was leaning heavily, you know, like if you don't, if you don't resolve trauma in your life as it unfolds and you don't get help either through community, it don't have to be necessarily, necessarily a professional, but you don't get community around certain things and you sit on an island alone trying to sort out things. I mean, some of the stuff I was able to sort out, but so much is done through disassociation.
So much is done through burying memories and burying trauma deep.
And so for me, when I became a dad and I had children of my own, and then those children would hit different milestones in their life.
It would bring me back to that age I was and where I was at that stage and maybe some of the heavy weight I was carrying at that stage. So through the lens of my children, I started reliving some of my childhood Trauma, and it was interfering with my relationships with my kids, which I wasn't prepared to do. I would have never put the oxygen mask on myself, had had the, you know, I never thought highly enough of myself back then to put, to take time to work on me in that way.
And it wasn't until I saw it interfering with my kids that I said, I'm not going to let this happen. Being a good dad and a present father and a present husband and a partner that my wife could count on was super important to me.
So I put the oxygen mask on me for then, and I'm glad I did because it's some point I realized that I was worth that oxygen mask too.
So. And one of the things that, when I was working with the therapist, I was saying, he said, you know, you, you have a lot going on in your head. Like, I unpack stuff. I've always unpacked stuff. And so as this trauma was coming back up and I was starting to relive some of this stuff, I, you know, I needed to do something constructive. I was, I was, I was pouring alcohol over top of it. I was, you know, I was eating. I was ballooning up, you know, I went up to 374 pounds, you know, and there wasn't enough alcohol in the world to bury some of the trauma that you relive in, you know, and it's like, and then you're, you know, you're trying to be a good dad. You're taking your kids to school in the morning, but you're up late, you're drinking when you're, Your family's going to bed. So, you know, for everyone drink, I, you know, they thought I had probably had three or four, you know, because by the time, you know, I did the old switcheroo with the bottle and, and I used to think that, you know, maybe it's. I got a problem. My father was an alcoholic. Maybe I'm an alcoholic too. So I'd stop for a week. I'd stop for two weeks and I'd say, well, yes, if I was an alcoholic, I'd never be able to stop for two weeks. Okay, it must be okay.
[00:36:44] Speaker A: That's one of the pitfalls, right?
[00:36:47] Speaker B: Yeah, I'd be able to, I'd be able to hoist again, you know, no problem. And then I would get back into that cycle because really it was, it was, it wasn't the. It wasn't a problem I had. It was the solution to a problem I had unresolved trauma.
And it just served you know, people don't look at it this way, but it's really a outlet.
It's really an outlet for things.
You know, a lot of people, it's. It really isn't the problem, it's the solution to the problem. I really believe that. So, you know, seeing the therapist and starting to work on myself in a deeper, more meaningful way, you know, it was suggested that I. I start journaling. And it was really clumsy at first. You know, I would write.
[00:37:24] Speaker A: It's hard to get around the discipline around it too. Right?
[00:37:27] Speaker B: Yeah, Yeah. I would get frustrated with it. And I started with a 90 day challenge where I got really disciplined, was in 2019 with it, you know, and that was in a community that I was in around alcohol, where we were encouraged to journal for 90 days straight.
And, and so I made that commitment to do it and I, I wrote every day and it was only writing to me. It wasn't supposed to be unpacked by anybody else. And that. Actually some of that stuff I've shared on Facebook because there's, you know, some of it was the ramblings of a madman that would go into the journal and. But some of it was some really important stuff that I unpacked about myself and how I got to the place I was and how I was able to pick myself up and move forward and. And the truth is, the more, you know, I've always been a student of people, you know, and maybe that's why I've had some success in real estate is being a student of people and a fan of people and a pet and knowing that there's always more to the story than people will allow you to know. All you get to know is their version of what they're comfortable sharing with you.
You don't get to know. Most people have some trauma that they're carrying. Most people have.
[00:38:33] Speaker A: Everybody does.
[00:38:34] Speaker B: Yeah. They have things that they, that they don't share. Struggles they have, you know, fears that they have. So, so I, you know, because journaling has become so important to me, I, I now journal every day.
I'd say it was three and a half years ago where I said, I'm going to unpack something on Facebook every day and I'm going to see how long I can do it.
[00:38:57] Speaker A: So is this every day that you can you put something up on Facebook?
[00:39:01] Speaker B: I do something, yeah. Long form on Facebook every morning. Part of, part of my healing journey has included a sun, you know, a sunrise routine, I call it, but really it's like a 4, 30 to 5am routine that will usually get me out walking or, you know, either at sunrise, if sunrise is the time time it is now, or before sunrise if it's, you know, later in the year. Yeah. Yeah. When it's. When sunrise is 7. 7pm yeah. God bless you.
Then. Then I'll. Then by the time the sun's up, I'm, I'm, I'm way off and going by then. But. But I call it my sunrise routine. And, and that, that, that is a journal. Part of that is a journal entry. And then a lot of times I'll do a. I'll take that journal entry out, cut and paste it. And, and then I'll. I'll reformat it some. I won't put it, you know, often word for word. Sometimes I do into Facebook, but I'll do a Facebook version of it. Something that I'm prepared to share.
And, and I. And I, I made the promise to be 100 honest, because I don't think there's enough honesty, which is hard to do. Yeah, well, it's very vulnerable, especially for someone like me, because I've been.
I've been a chameleon. I'll adjust to whatever environment I'm in. And so, like, people would always say they never knew I carried so much struggle because I always wore a mask. Well, and most people who, you know, there are many people who wear masks in our society, and you don't know what they're carrying. And so it was, you know, I would blend in. You would never, you know, because I was able to blend in so much.
You know, being able to do that was, you know, or give the appearance of being okay. You know, it was almost, in sometimes, some ways it was a gift. In some ways it was a curse.
Yeah. So. So being honest with myself and exposing myself, it's almost like, what's the old adage, you know, standing in front of the room and, you know, either picture in the audience naked or pitching yourself naked, you almost feel like you're standing there naked, vulnerable and for everybody to see. But there it is. Empowering as well, because you say, look, this is just who I am. I'm comfortable with that. I'm comfortable with the, you know, because I'm a good man, I'm a good husband, I'm a good dad, I'm a good friend. I'm a good real estate agent.
You know, I, you know, I'm a good advocate, I'm a good community member. No matter what community I exist in, these are very important things for me.
And you know, and I have these other things that I've had to unpack and to try, challenges that I had and the more honest I can be about that and about, about letting people know that a pathway from struggle to strength isn't always a great line. Matter of fact, it's often not. It's usually, you know, two steps forward, three steps back, you know, up and down, zigzag around, you know, but you, as long as you're committed. And my tagline at the end of most of my posts, those long posts is always 1% better every day, you know, the hashtag I like to use. And because that's really how I've gone to view my journey is I don't need to, you know, you know, I don't need to reach a destination so much. I have goals, very distinctive ones. I've gotten very goal motivated and those goals are very deep ones. I have 10 very deep goals that I visit regularly. And everything that I do, including my writing, has to be connected to each of those 10 goals.
[00:42:23] Speaker A: Joe, how crazy is it that we were just talking about this? Like, you know, like we don't we talk about in life like it's about, you know, people chase attainment, right? And this, this end, this finish line at this imaginary finish line that's out there that we're all moving towards. But the reality is, you know, it's, it's, it's progress towards a meaningful goal is one of the pillars to happiness. And I'm going to ask you real quick, Joe, what was the, what was the term we used earlier? We're talking about struggle.
Do you remember what it was?
Al the reason like what we were talking about was, you know, struggle. Isn't it, Is it, is it a requirement? It's a human need. Struggle is a human need. And you have either that thing, it was empowered struggle or victimized struggle. You know, empowered struggle is what you're doing now. Empowered struggle is the difficult thing is getting up early. Empowered struggle is exercising. Empowered struggle is opening yourself up to the traumas of your past, which is incredibly difficult to do. Right. But you're choosing to do that. The victim struggle is the self sabotage, you know, the drinking, the women, you know, in some cases, you know, very successful people who have, from the outside looking in, when they got their mask on, they got all the, everything you think they'd ever want in the world and they want to, they, they're this close to jumping off a bridge, you know what I mean? Because, because they're, they're, they're they're choosing that victim struggle instead of the empowered struggle.
And I think it's so important for our listeners, for the people who are out there. Like, guys, you heard Al. He is not a, this is an accomplished, you know, pillar of the community. And, and, and I think that a big part is a willingness to accept, like, hey, I'm going to choose empowered struggles right over Joe, what was it, what was one of the things you said earlier about empowered struggle?
[00:44:14] Speaker C: Well, so like, well, there always needs to be a juxtaposition to appreciate like growth or, or success.
So if you don't have like, you know, without joy there, without pain, there can't be joy and you know, sunshine, rain, like that, that whole deal. Right. So like, your mind, if everything is going exactly how it should be and you are like firing on all cylinders, your mind will naturally seek out some kind of stressor.
And if you can fabricate that stress in a controlled environment and do things, you get the same basic, you know, like, it's like a control, satisfy the.
[00:45:00] Speaker A: Need that you said.
[00:45:01] Speaker C: Yeah, if you are in control of the, the stimuli that is stressing you, then that's going to eliminate the ones that you can't control from creeping into your mind. And it's all, literally all in your mind. Like, unless someone's physically attacking you or you're physically ill or something like that, then all of these things that people like, fixate on and have a hard time with, these are all components of things in their mind. So, you know, getting back, like you can control the six inches between your head. That's about it. So if you're able to fabricate stresses under your own terms, under your own control, then this is going to fill that, that need for the juxtaposition of when you feel good and you're doing good things and success and so forth. So one of the, one of the common thing themes that we've noticed, we've had guests and people that do amazing things in life is it seems like a lot of people who have had some sort of trauma in their, in their life, then it, it triggers something in the brain and then they go out and they do these amazing things. Like there's so many stories of, you know, I was in war, I did this, and then I came back and like, because of that experience, I saw things differently. And then I went out and did this or, you know, a loss of a spouse or a child or something like that. And all of these things. I don't know what it does, you know, I'M sure that there could be scientific studies on it, but it definitely changes the DNA in people to go out to do great things. And so like you don't want.
[00:46:32] Speaker A: Hopefully it does. Hopefully.
[00:46:34] Speaker C: Well, yeah, for of course. But like you don't want to have wait around for something bad to happen. You can actually stimulate these stressors and whatever that neuro connection that happens, you can do it through doing difficult things every day.
So I've personally noticed this. Like I started, I started training, I started fighting and, and so forth and get up early and do all these like relatively difficult things. And my mind as I'm doing the difficult things is not racing to the unknown of like oh, what about this? So it's, it's definitely. There's something to it to you need to fill the void of a stress in your life that you can control and it'll, it'll help you appreciate and realize on the other end of the positive and the good things that you have going on and, and so forth. So that's, that's what I think the big takeaway would be.
[00:47:27] Speaker A: That's awesome. Well, I hope that you continue to share your journey with everyone that, that and if you're not following Al, go go on Facebook and do it because like I said, I enjoy every day reading those posts and, and there's wisdom behind it and there's rawness to it and, and it's a good reminder for me on you know, being disciplined around the things that I want to be disciplined around and, and the fact that you, you continue to do it is an inspiration. So, so I look forward to it to many, many more.
[00:48:02] Speaker B: I appreciate that. Yeah. It's funny because it ends up, you end up developing kind of a tribe there, you know, if I do, if I turn this back to business for a second, you know, people do business with people they know like and trust. You know, especially in real estate mortgage business. You know, it's like it's a, it's a relation relationship business. And it's funny because I'll see people and they'll, you know, it. Admitting your frailty and admitting your vulnerability, being vulnerable is such a strong connector to people. It's not why I did, I didn't do it as a business strategy.
[00:48:39] Speaker A: No more than your mom did it when she was.
[00:48:42] Speaker B: Yeah, I just did it to, to you know, in my own self development and in the possibility that what I might, what I may have unpacked might help somebody else with something. You mentioned about, you know, kind of the victim mentality.
Anytime I hear the word victim, I also, I gotta pay it some respect because I was one of these people that I never wanted to be a victim. I want it to be, you know, past, you know, like, you know, muscle, past it, whatever, you know, grin and bear it. Yeah. Shoulder, shoulder, whatever the weight. And one of the things I learned was that I needed to recognize and respect whatever.
You know, I was so hell bent on not being a victim that I think I. I never paid that respect that it deserved at the stage in my life when maybe, maybe I was in that position. So. So for me, actually acknowledging that I, I was a victim in many ways, you know, was a big moment for me. Yeah. I sat in the pit for a brief amount of time.
[00:49:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:49:51] Speaker B: And I felt it. And so you could either stay in that pit and you can continue with that, the world is out to get me and, you know, or you can say, okay, now that I've accepted this reality where what am I going to do about it?
But it was until, you know, I really think I was able to put my own personal self development and my ability to, you know, work through my own traumas on kind of the steroid path that it jumped into because.
Because I did allow myself to be a victim. I never gave myself that grace before.
And so it wasn't an extended period, but it was a period where I still. So. And still many ways I identify as the victim, you know, then you identify in the next phases as well. But it's almost like, okay, this is all right. I want to sit here for a minute and acknowledge these things, these truths, and then I can figure out where to go from here. But I almost have to pay it the respect I never allowed it to have as it was unfolding. So that's a great point, man, because.
[00:50:53] Speaker A: I guess, you know, because again, we come into this world, world without our choice. Like, we didn't choose to be here. We didn't pick our parents, we didn't pick our circumstances for the first, you know, what, first 20 of our lives. Right.
[00:51:05] Speaker B: So.
[00:51:05] Speaker A: So yes, you're absolutely right. Like, we are all victims, you know, have been victimized in some way or another, obviously some more severe than others. But I think the difference is, are you, you know, trauma, bad things happen, accept it, like you said, process it, work through it, feel it and let it go. I think there's people out there to victimize themselves, and I think that's the victim mentality that a lot of people.
[00:51:36] Speaker C: There's a. I think semantically semantics are important.
There's a difference between victim and survivor. So, like, victim, you can be a victim because something happens to you.
What you do at that point determines whether you're a survivor or you're not. So that's, that's what I think the focus is.
[00:51:57] Speaker B: There's no, there's no survivor that exists that wasn't a victim first.
[00:52:01] Speaker C: Correct. You don't choose to be. You didn't choose to be a victim, but you choose to be a survivor.
[00:52:07] Speaker B: That's the.
[00:52:08] Speaker C: So, so I, I actually, I like, I like that you're acknowledging that because that's important, that things happen to you if you're a victim. Like, no one walks down the street and chooses to get mugged. Like, you didn't. You didn't think that that was going to happen. Someone, you know, put their will on you, and then you're left with the consequences of that. And, and after that point, it's up to you to decide how you're going to move forward. You know, so.
[00:52:37] Speaker B: But society tells us in many instances, particularly men, although women as well, that you shouldn't be a victim. You should power through it. You need to get over it. You move forward with, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, muscle, you know, you put your big boy pants on, you know, that kind of stuff. And, and that's kind of the stigmatism that comes around. So it's almost like when, when you give it a minute to allow that victim piece to come in your mind, it's almost like you dismiss it. At least I did. You dismiss it as this. These are not valid. Feel. I shouldn't feel this way. I shouldn't. Somehow this makes me less of a man or less of a person.
And in reality, for me, in my path, it was like, no, it was validating that same thing that I had been dismissing for as long as I was and acknowledging its existence. And then I said, okay, now I can move into that kind of survivor mindset, which is. Is okay. Like, I don't have to sit in this, in this same place all the time, but I identify that way still. And I have a lot of empathy for folks who do get stuck in that victim spot, you know, because I do know for, you know, there's not a blueprint for a lot of that. And so it's, it's, you know, some people have to sit in that mess a little bit longer before they then say, okay, now, now it's time to get up. And who am I to define what that length of time should be? You know, especially, you know, it's not like we have a butcher scale. We get the way trauma everywhere we go. But you're trying.
[00:54:05] Speaker A: To.
[00:54:05] Speaker C: There's different severities of it too.
[00:54:07] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:54:08] Speaker A: You know, have you ever read, have you ever read anything on the dopamine responses to victimhood? Yeah, that's some crazy stuff.
[00:54:15] Speaker B: I'm, I'm such an, I've become such a wormhole again. I used to listen to a ton of sports talk radio state not anymore. I, I, I'll either tune in I, I become a huge person on audible.
You know right now I'm, I'm reading. You know body keeps score complex. You know. You know, traumas and just things that are just interest me.
One of my favorite books is a book called Unfuck Yourself, get out of your Head and Into youo Life. Gary John Bishop, he's got a whole series of books.
You know. So when you see me with my earbuds in, if I'm at the gym, if I'm on a walk and I walk every day, if I'm in my car driving, I almost always have audible on or, or a guest that's on a podcast somewhere that inspires me or I want to learn more about and it's usually subject. It's not usually not it's not usually mindless once in a while. You know, I call that like Doritos. Like sometimes you just want to eat a Dorito, you know. You know, you're, you know, there's no nutritional value, but it's a Dorito and but, but I always want to be filling my cup up. It's almost like, you know, car University. I'm in my car, I want to learn something. You know, all the time you spend. So that's that.
[00:55:34] Speaker A: I like that term Car University.
[00:55:36] Speaker B: Yeah, why not, right? It's so I'd always, I just hope.
[00:55:39] Speaker C: Our podcast isn't Aren't Doritos.
KJ is more like a flaming hot Cheeto here.
[00:55:47] Speaker B: You guys are at least a, at least a Texas Tommy or something like that.
There's some protein.
[00:55:57] Speaker A: So as long as you don't feel guilty after listening to us, it's okay.
[00:56:02] Speaker B: You guys bring, you guys bring too much goodness in the into the world. So that's, that's a, that's a good thing. That's why I always like talking to Ken. You know, no disrespect with Joe and I just don't know each other as well. So it's but yeah, whenever I see Ken, we usually got a smile on our face. You know, certain People you run into, you meet. And when you leave the meeting, you feel a little bit better. Like, that's a. That's a real special. That's a real special thing, you know? And, you know, there should be more people in the universe like that who, you know, you're always pouring in, you know, and. And I appreciate that.
[00:56:33] Speaker A: I appreciate it, too. All right. Speaking of appreciation, I have massive appreciation for someone who's seen Barry Manilow seven times. Let's get into the two truths and a lie. We have three facts here. One is Al Naim, not the occupation, but the actual name of each member of the Village People. He's been to Barry Manilow seven times, mostly with guys, I think exclusively guys. No, he said he went once or twice with his wife or something.
[00:57:04] Speaker C: Okay, okay, okay.
[00:57:06] Speaker A: He hung out with the Sugar Hill gang. I'm. I'm. I'm gonna tell you right now. I'm already upset at what I'm gonna find out is not true.
Like you said, John, I want them all to be true.
[00:57:17] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. I don't. I don't sell Melly Mel short because it was the sugar.
My white lines go a long way, brother. Come on.
[00:57:25] Speaker A: You know which one of these is the lie?
[00:57:28] Speaker C: Man, bro, that's like.
I mean, what, like Apache?
You're all just on a bus, like, jumping on it, like, riding, like, white lines, bro, man.
Ah.
I'm gonna have to say the lie.
Like. Well, first of all, we know all the names of the Village People. That's just ridiculous. Like that.
Like, that's too specific. That's too crazy to be alive. Like, that's like.
I can't imagine how you would come up with that being your lie. So I'm going to rule that one out. That's got to be true.
Barry Manilow 7 times with mostly dudes.
Like, there's a lot of. There could be.
There could be some nuances in there that aren't true. Like, it could have been Barry Manilow twice with wife or. And then it's not seven.
[00:58:30] Speaker A: Or could have been hanging out with a bunch of dudes in Barry Battle or could be.
[00:58:34] Speaker C: Yeah, dude, it might have been somebody else. I don't know. So I'm gonna go with the. I'm gonna.
I'm gonna go with number two being a lie, just because I hope. I really hope the other two are true.
[00:58:45] Speaker A: I'm gonna say. I'm gonna say number two as well. But the lies. Barrymantle, I think it was Wayne Newton that he saw seven times and not Barry Manilow. That's going to be my guess as well. Al. Which one of these is the lie?
[00:58:58] Speaker B: So I definitely hung out at the lagoon and. And I definitely was on the party bus drinking. Drinking zipperheads with the. With the Sugar Hill Gang.
[00:59:08] Speaker A: And that is freaking awesome.
[00:59:10] Speaker B: Yeah. Just by chance, we didn't even. We didn't even know they were playing.
We went there. We went there after a WWF at the. @ the Spectrum and went there and.
[00:59:21] Speaker C: And Sugar Hill, this isn't. This isn't like the revival of the early 2000s.
[00:59:29] Speaker B: Yeah, this was midnight. They came for a midnight show and we were just getting. We were just getting ready to leave the lagoon. We went there, probably got there at like 10 o' clock after the WWF match, was with a couple buddies and they said, oh, you know, Sugar Hill Gang's running a little bit late, but they'll be here, don't worry. And I was like, did they just say the Sugar Hill Gang? We're not going anywhere. So we stayed and we ended up, you know, it was a late night. I'll just leave it at that. And all because we wanted the tour shirts.
That's how we ended up. It wasn't we were special or VIPs or anything. It was.
[01:00:00] Speaker A: You remember. You remember the lagoon, had penny drinks? Remember that?
[01:00:03] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah. Lagoon. We spent many, many a night at the lagoon. There's a reason I have so few brain cells, so. And the Village People, I. I had.
[01:00:12] Speaker C: All that was Peak Essington back in the day.
[01:00:15] Speaker B: I loved it. I missed it. I still walk down there. It's one of my walk. I walk by the old lagoon. They have that Governor Prince park down there, which is really cool. And you still see the old site where the lagoon stood. So maybe one day we'll get something else over there. But I missed a little.
[01:00:29] Speaker C: I hope not. That was a. That place needs to be. That needs to be like Independence Hall.
[01:00:33] Speaker B: A shrine. Yeah.
And, you know, growing up in the 80s, we had album covers and on album covers on the back of the.
The Macho man album and the YMCA album and their live and Sleazy album, which was a bifold. You open it up, had all the names of the. Of all the players of Victor Willis, you know, Randy Jones, Alex Briley, Glenn Hughes, all these guys. The biker dude. So. So I knew all their names. And for some reason it occupies space in my head I've never been able to lose. I've forgotten so much shit in my life, but I've never forgotten that. So it's something I'll bring up. And then Barry Manilow is the. Is the lie. I've seen him 11 times. Twice with my wife.
It wasn't seven and nine.
Nine times with dudes I grew up with, because we all. One day we all came out. One day we all came in. There's two types of men in the world.
Men who admit they like Barry Manilow and men who are in the closet and won't admit it has some dispersions on. On your manliness. But there's not a man alone who don't know the words of Mandy. So don't even deny it.
[01:01:41] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm not gonna lie.
[01:01:43] Speaker B: One day we were having a few drinks when we shouldn't have been. When we were at.
[01:01:46] Speaker C: We came and gave without taking. That's what happened.
[01:01:49] Speaker B: That, and we admit it. Someone said, hey, you know, I kind of like Barry Manilow. And next thing I know, but Manilow's on the radio because we all came out of the closet and said, me, too. Me too. So it was the original me too movement back in circa 1987 or whatever. And it was that we. Me too. I love Barry Manilow. And so every time we've seen him, we've tailgated. We've had, like, you know, it was like going to an Eagles game. So all these dudes would walk by with their. With their wives or their girlfriends looking at us like something ain't right here. These guys are, like, throwing the football around, you know, Got steaks on the grill. What's. What's going on here? This is like. This is the Eagles environment. And. Yeah. Yep, we were going to see Manilow, and Twice. I went with my wife. He did a Christmas show once, and then we went to one of the shows. And, yeah, it was a real good time. It's a real good concert. By the way, if you ever get a chance to see.
[01:02:40] Speaker C: I'm a fan. I love Barry Mao. I'm not ashamed to admit it.
[01:02:43] Speaker B: So what's your You? What's your you? Can you still in the closet or you. You real deal.
[01:02:47] Speaker A: Listen. I sing. I sing the songs when they come on the radio. I didn't know it was a thing. I didn't know I wasn't supposed to.
[01:02:56] Speaker B: That's good.
You know, you're a real man when you're at the gym and you got the buds in and you got Manilow playing and you can look around the room and you say you see everyone else with the earbuds and you say, I. I guarantee.
I actually, I See here. But he's got a cadence to his music in a lot of his songs. That's good workout music. Give it. Give it a shot next time.
[01:03:17] Speaker C: I tell. That's. It's funny you say that, because when I work out, I listen. That's one of the My secrets. When I work, I work out a lot every day. And when I'm lifting and stuff like that, I have Whitney Houston. I listen like, yacht rock, like, all this stuff. And I swear to God.
[01:03:39] Speaker A: Corner.
[01:03:39] Speaker C: I see Neil diamond in concert a bunch, too. I love Neil diamond.
[01:03:43] Speaker B: But, like, I know I look Blue jeans, baby. Come on.
[01:03:45] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:03:46] Speaker B: Gotcha.
[01:03:47] Speaker C: That's the best music to work out to. I don't need to get fired up. I'm already fired up. You know, I need to be like.
[01:03:52] Speaker B: Right?
[01:03:52] Speaker C: Yeah. Let the.
Let the music talk to me go.
[01:03:57] Speaker A: All right, well, listen, we gotta wrap up. This was probably one of our longest podcasts, and it went by Little Flash.
[01:04:03] Speaker B: It's like one of my Facebook posts Long.
[01:04:06] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Should have known it wasn't gonna be short.
But I appreciate you coming on. Thank you for sharing, man. I hope you come back, and I hope we can catch up soon.
[01:04:14] Speaker B: Yeah, man.
[01:04:15] Speaker A: And we'll see you guys later.
[01:04:17] Speaker B: Hey, thanks, guys.
[01:04:19] Speaker A: Thanks for listening to Selling the Dream. We know you don't want to miss.
[01:04:22] Speaker B: A single episode, so go subscribe today, wherever you get your podcasts, and then make sure to share the show with your friends and leave us a review.
