Episode Transcript
[00:00:09] Speaker A: You're listening to Selling the Dream. This isn't an interview, and we're not journalists, but each week we'll ask our guests to open up and share their secrets to business success.
Let's have a conversation and have some fun.
[00:00:24] Speaker B: Hey, everybody. Welcome to Selling the Dream. Today we are joined. We're not even going to get, like that little intro conversation between me and Joe. You know, normally we, like, chat for a couple minutes and we bring our guest in, but Jay can't sit around and wait, man. He's too high quality, high character, high, high caliber of a guest for us to put him in a green room for three minutes while we bullshit. So this is.
[00:00:48] Speaker C: This is when the falcon becomes the falconer.
[00:00:51] Speaker B: That's it. We are incredibly excited to. To join a friend of the show, a repeat guest, the man, the myth and the. The legend that is the founder of Culture Matters, Jay Duran.
Jay, I have a quote for this episode just for you.
[00:01:16] Speaker A: Awesome.
[00:01:17] Speaker B: All right.
Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate. Now, I'll ask you if you know who that is.
[00:01:29] Speaker A: Carl Jung.
[00:01:31] Speaker B: That's it. Carl Jung. I knew you would know who that is.
[00:01:34] Speaker A: That's a good one. I could resonate with that guy and that quote. That's some scary stuff. We're gonna have a light conversation, I guess. All right.
[00:01:42] Speaker B: Yeah. Nothing light about it. First things first, Jake, thank you very much for joining us. And again, for those of us, for those of you listening, joined always by my co host, Joe Iredell in California.
And Jay, I want to start with some gratitude.
You have been a phenomenal influence on this podcast on myself, not only in your willingness to go out and help introduce us to folks that you think would be good guests, but I remembered something you said in passing about a year ago, and you were being a little bit sarcastic, but it hit well. And, you know, we were. We had a couple of shows under our belt last year, and we were looking for that consistency, and we really, you know, I guess I was making some excuse as to why we hadn't done a show in a while. And you said, well, yeah, I mean, you have something awesome that's working, so you should probably stop doing it.
And I like it. I'm like, you know what, dude? Like, you're absolutely right. Like, why the hell are we not doing more of it?
And that was the. That was a turning point for us to get more intentional about being consistent with recording these shows and putting it out there. And I have since made some Adjustments and hired some people so that we can continue to bring this show to whoever cares to listen. So first things first. I don't know if you remember that conversation, but, but I, I am grateful for it and grateful for you and, and, and, and thankful that, you know, that we're still having this fun every, every, every week or so. So thank you.
How's that?
[00:03:33] Speaker C: My pleasure.
[00:03:34] Speaker B: How's that for a start? J.
[00:03:35] Speaker A: Doing it.
[00:03:35] Speaker C: Bam.
[00:03:36] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:39] Speaker B: You said it.
[00:03:40] Speaker A: It's.
[00:03:40] Speaker B: You got something awesome and it's going well, so you should definitely stop.
[00:03:47] Speaker A: Well, how has it been tough to do it? I was just having a lunch with someone. They said how, you know, they went on a couple shows that I introduced them to and the people never released the episode.
[00:04:00] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it's, it's work. It is work. You know, when you're, when you're putting these together and all three of us at, well, you know, two out of three of us have other jobs, so podcasting is something that we do. For me, I love it because it allows me to explore pure curiosity. And from a selfish standpoint, Joe and I talk about this all the time. I learned something from every single person we have on. And the questions that I ask are never scripted.
And I asked them because I truly want to learn from our guests. And I just assume that if I'm curious, that our listeners are curious. But it is work.
And you got to get the people scheduled and you got to record the episode, which, as you know, scheduling conflicts are difficult. And then. Yeah, and then you got to get it edited, you got to get it out, you got to do that post production stuff. But we've, we've found a nice, you know, mix of. I'm getting some help, some support from Princeton, as well as I've hired someone to help with, with guests. So I can, I can see why those other folks had a hard time getting the show out, but what's the point of doing it if you're not going to release it? That's the other thing, right? Like, if you're going to spend the time doing it, you might as well, might as well release it.
[00:05:23] Speaker A: So how's it played?
[00:05:25] Speaker C: One time somebody said to me, somebody said, you know, you come in, you like to hit the home runs, but you don't like to clean up the bases afterwards and help. And I think that's like the whole. With these podcasts, it's easy to do them, everybody gets on. But then the after work, which, that's what, that's what gets it out there. So, you know, if you just have home run hitters and you don't have guys that can put it together, then it just.
Picasso wouldn't have been famous if he kept his art in a closet. So.
[00:06:00] Speaker A: How about your network? Like, has it impacted that?
[00:06:06] Speaker B: I think so. I think that the ability to have this platform to, to bring big thinkers, entrepreneurs, leaders into a conversation has expanded and attracted, in my world, has expanded and, and attracted new relationships, you know, and I think that it's been that it's, it's, it's been, it's been impactful there. I don't know, Joe, has it impacted.
[00:06:37] Speaker C: Your world at all? Yeah, I mean, in a different way. Like, I'll buy a lot, actually. So thanks to Jay because Jay introduced me to a guy who's crushing it for, for my diametics business and that we can get into that in a little bit. But as far as, like, me personally, I didn't, I didn't seek out. When we started doing this, it was. Mine wasn't like, oh, I'm gonna not use this as like a tool to get more exposure or get, you know, I wasn't using this as a business tool. I was like, this is kind of neat. Get to talk to cool people.
I like having these conversations anyway. It's going to be fun, you know. So for me, it's actually sharpened my ability to critically think about stuff and hear different perspectives from people because I feel like in my world, like I, by design and I think a lot of us do this. Like, I surround myself with a very. The people who get my ear and who I share things with are a very tight circle and you know, like, like meaningfully speaking to people.
So oftentimes, like those people around me, we're all very like minded. So we're all just kind of like, yeah, you think this. I think this too. Like, all right, so this actually has been a really good exercise in hearing other. Almost being forced to hear what other people think that's different from me in a, in a really constructive manner.
So that's helped me get a better view of, you know, not so much what people are saying, but like why they're saying it, the couple levels behind the thought process and that it's enabled us, you know, like some of the questions we're able to ask and stuff like that. It really, it fills in a lot of the pieces of the puzzle. So that's personally. And I said this along, like, selfishly, this is where I do my research and I mentioned like a couple of podcasts back. Like, I collect people. This is where I collect people. I like to get in their heads. I like to understand what they're saying. And I oftentimes use things that we've talked about on this podcast in subsequent conversations about other things. I say, oh, you know, I know this about this subject or whatever. So it's been a, it's been a really. It's helped my business that way. Not necessarily directly in terms of where I can reach out and say I really want to get in front of this person or I have this tool, I can help it expose another business and so forth. Like, that's not, that's not the direct impact for me, but it's the actual content that we get out of it.
[00:09:11] Speaker B: Yeah, it's been, it's been awesome.
Yeah, it's been fun. So, Jay, how are things all. All matters of culture in Culture Matters. How are things going?
[00:09:24] Speaker A: I was gonna, I was gonna open up the show with a quote and. And Joe just like just nailed it. It was actually this.
Convictions are more dangerous enemies to truth than lies.
Free drinks.
That was how. That was what I was gonna. But you hit us with that Carl Jung quote there. But convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies. So it's like really powerful to me that you, that you. That's part of what you've gotten from this, Jode, is to listen not just what people think, but why people think the things they think. Having so many different types of people on the show, like, wow, what a great testament to.
I don't know, there's something that's so deep.
[00:10:11] Speaker B: See that we're all align, bro. We're all aligned.
[00:10:15] Speaker C: It's so e. Like, it's actually, it's easy, dude. Like you, you get the point. Or someone, if you know where, how someone got somewhere.
And I'll actually put this in almost like a. Not nefarious, but like in a context where it's self serving. So like if you want to manipulate something, right, you have to understand all of the processes of how it got there, so you can go back to square one and correct the course of how they got there. So like if you're just. If you're having a disagreement with someone and you're at your point and they're at their point, you're just gonna butt heads. But if you can circumvent all of the steps that they got to that point and change them from the original point that led them up to that, then you can change course and that's how you're able to actually get them on your process of thought to see and understand where you come from. And it's like the old quote of, like, first you need seek to understand before you're understood. So it's as simple as that. And like, you don't, most people don't get an opportunity to do that because like I said, you surround yourself with people who validate everything that you believe and everything that you see. And that's where, like, the confirmation bias comes in. So I'm seeing this now in my space because of AI.
And if you think about like Internet searches and things like that, where people are looking for answers, AI is like Internet on steroids, obviously. But like, if you know, with Google, like, you can ask, you can type in a question in Google 50 million different ways. And if you do it just right, you're going to get the right answer that you were looking to get.
[00:12:03] Speaker B: You're going to get the answer you're looking for. Not the right answer.
[00:12:06] Speaker C: Not exactly the right answer. Yeah. So like, this is how, this is how all of this.
[00:12:10] Speaker A: Oh, you guys have noticed that too.
[00:12:12] Speaker C: Full circle. Yeah. So I can share some interesting stuff we're doing with AI right now on a business side.
[00:12:19] Speaker A: Yeah, I'd love to talk about that too.
[00:12:21] Speaker C: It'll blow you up.
[00:12:23] Speaker A: Ken asked me how I'm doing, so I can say in a short version they might plug into some of that, maybe be useful for the audience.
I think one of the things I'm excited about right now is merging real intelligence with artificial intelligence.
So for the last 10 years, one of the things that would make me valuable to a company as relates to company culture would be discovery. So, like, I would be, hey, you know, put me in, coach. You know, I'm shadowing, let's say the operating principle, right. The founder of the organization doing discovery as a way to start building a consultative advisorial relationship with that organization. The, the intention to help the company culture. First you got to figure out what are all the ingredients, like what's actually going on here. And so like that discovery process where I'm observing and taking notes and writing down and gathering information and information and data, I've always done it with something in a classical sense called real intelligence that might be with a pen and a paper is how that started.
And then over time, it. That became the remarkable was a piece of technology that I would use. It's like a, it's a remarkable piece of technology. It's like a cloud, cloud integrated computer in a notepad form. And then over time that's, that's evolved into like word.
So real intelligence would be actually spending the time in the field observing, observing what people say, how people show up in meetings, gathering that intelligence that, you know, I would have to do.
Then I want to do that, understand the nuances of the business.
From there, it's actually synthesizing that information and developing some. The Culture Puzzle, which is a, A book breaking down the story and the values and the symbolism and the language and the rituals and the. An analysis of the hero or the leadership of the organization. That takes months to create this book.
Because you know, in the classical sense, if just real intelligence.
You mentioned Picasso. You know, a painting might take some time to figure out what colors you want to use and what brush and how many strokes it's going to take. And then you'll go through weeks and weeks of maybe not even painting anything and just walking around your house like naked thinking, or partially clothed or like not sleeping anyway. But there's that creative process to create that book or create that painting as of recent now with this, this, this AI.
[00:15:03] Speaker C: What.
[00:15:04] Speaker A: One thing I've, I've really am hu. Hugely excited about is to still go through that discovery process that put it, the information inside of an artificial intelligence model to, to spit back or synthesize like let's say, you know, 50, 100 pages of data that's been ingested from, you know, subject to object and ultimately, you know, increasing the speed of things. What used to take maybe weeks or months can I can now get done in a tenth or a twentieth of the period of time. So that's been an exciting, you know, fusing real intelligence. And now I'm being kind of tongue in cheek with that real intelligence. You know, experience, education.
[00:15:53] Speaker B: Curiosity.
[00:15:55] Speaker A: Yeah, you can kind of see like what I mean by real intelligence.
[00:15:58] Speaker B: There's this, absolutely.
[00:15:59] Speaker A: There's this niche.
[00:16:00] Speaker C: It's easy to, it's easy just to break it out, put it into two categories. There's IQ and there's eq.
So the AI is, is all iq, it's not eq. So if you describe the like, tell me about a Picasso painting and it was like, ah, it's some weird. Like it's a picture of what. Or like let's do Mona Lisa. I know that like, like what's Mona Lisa? Like it's a picture of a lady like kind of half smiling. Right? That's what, that's what AI says. How, how is AI going to understand that that's one of the, like a masterpiece if it just looks at the thing, that's where the input comes in. So this is where like the whole, this is the whole process of you can manipulate AI and it's happening right now. The people who are on the forefront of this are in very, very powerful position because the, the opinion, the EQ data points go into that are going into AI right now. But if you start, and this ties exactly into like our original, you know how we kind of kick this off? If you start with square one, there's, there's a hierarchy of valuable citations of where this information is being pulled from. So AI uses this. So like if you have, you know, like your next door neighbor's blog about her cat, right? Like that may mention, you know, Mona Lisa is a good picture, right?
So that'll get pulled like AI can find that, like Grok or ChatGPT, that'll find that mention of it, but that will be a grain of sand compared to some sort of literary or, you know, art digest that breaks it down and so forth. So like when you take this information and you look at the hierarchy of validation, when it's going into the AI and you can go to the source, you can start creating these or manipulating the source of the validation in this hierarchy and then you're going to be, you're going to be able to.
I lose you guys.
Oh, hold on, dude, I got something else on my.
[00:18:08] Speaker B: I think you lost our audience with that phone ringing, but we're still here.
[00:18:12] Speaker C: Yeah, I feel you. Someone else uses this phone. So anyway, so the hierarchy of the information is what's important for where you're putting the data. So what it pulls from is, is, is what's determining the answers that the AI is giving you, if that makes sense.
[00:18:32] Speaker B: So Jay, how is, how is the are, do you, or do you have any concerns around the product that you create the output?
You know, what are you doing to protect your, your, your work because you know, it still has to be yours. Like it's not AI's version of what Jay thinks a culture map should look like. It still has to be your culture map, right? Like, how is it helping you?
[00:18:58] Speaker A: Yeah, I, I, I, oh, one thing I've recognized with this, that I think I'd like be curious of what you guys, if you've observed this, you know that are you familiar with the Dunning Kruger effect?
[00:19:10] Speaker B: It sounds familiar, so if you said it, I'm sure I will.
[00:19:14] Speaker A: The, the Dunning Kruger effect is the less that someone knows about a topic, the more they think they know and the more they think the More they actually know, the less they think they know. There's like a pretty highly cited research around this Dunning Kruger. When I think of the AI and I think of like the, like let's say, you know, there are many business owners that might be looking for a, a very specific type of help beyond their current scope of education or experience and wisdom in their business. That's where like a third party that has that, you know, experience, that education, that wisdom is going to come in and be helpful to them.
Okay. Because of the new, this EQ that Joe is mentioning, like the, the, the nuances that are, that are developed over time, that are developed through tenure, that are developed through experience and wisdom from, from like being in a specific niche for, you know, periods of years and so on. And, and in ecosystems that one that is not in those would have no concept of. Okay, well now with the artificial intelligence, somebody can like let's say have a conversation with an artificial intelligence model.
They don't know what questions to ask it.
So what I have found is a lot of like observing people that use artificial intelligence to solve the problems they think they have.
It increases their likelihood of thinking that they know more when they know less.
Because it's like everything looks like if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
So like empowering somebody that is not an expert, like giving them a tool to, to ask questions or make statements, seeking answers from a, from an artificial intelligence engine that's going to aggregate surface level information and spit it back out to them.
To me all that's going on by and large is that people that, it's the Dun, Dunning Kruger, they know so little that now they have this access to information, they think they know a lot more.
I'm observing that. So like for, for my standpoint, somebody just retained. I just had to spend two days to take a 42 page business plan that some, you know, someone, let's say associated with, like gave to me to analyze. It took two days to get it down to eight pages and it still wasn't done because, because the layperson put hours and hours and hours into this AI engine. The layperson, right.
They don't know what questions to ask. They don't have the information. If they had, that's a paradox. They wouldn't need the help in the first place.
So it's like giving the blind, the blind, leading the blind and then it's okay, so help me out bad.
[00:22:15] Speaker C: This is, this is AI is going to.
Well, I'm gonna get really theoretical here. So hang on. All right, Intelligence is, is neither created nor destroyed. There's a finite amount of intelligence that exists, okay?
So up to libraries, written documents, things like this, this intelligence was housed in the human mind, okay?
Over time it's been transposed and held on, you know, stone tablets and then paper, and then digital and so forth. And the more that human intelligence gets transported from human minds into external or third party systems, then the less, you have a less ability for the human mind to retain information and then function on that information. And I'll use a practical example.
Jay, do you know Kenny's phone number?
[00:23:23] Speaker A: No. No.
[00:23:25] Speaker C: Could you call him right now if you needed to?
[00:23:30] Speaker A: Using the phone? Yeah.
[00:23:32] Speaker C: Yes.
So if this was like 25 years ago and you talk to KJ a lot, would you know his phone number?
[00:23:40] Speaker A: You have to, right?
[00:23:43] Speaker C: So if I asked for directions somewhere in my own town, would I know every street?
Probably not. So this is what's happening. So now because AI is going to become so convenient for people to use, then what's going to happen is all of the intelligence that's stored in our brains is now going to be stored somewhere else.
[00:24:03] Speaker B: Information.
[00:24:04] Speaker C: Information. No. Well, whatever. Semantics. But that, what I'm saying is the exercise in being able to critically think and retain sources and data, pure data, it's housed in the brain, it's now housed somewhere else. So human beings will basically just be a shell and essentially a slave to all of this information. Like, if I needed your phone number, I happen to know KJ's, because we've known each other forever and we've had phones before it was like that. But if the. You're a slave to the device that's holding the collective intelligence of human nature now, so what if one day it just goes boom? Everybody forgets, like, I don't know anything because it's all on Google. And so all of these quote unquote experts that know AI and I can do this like it's, it's a crutch because you're taking away the ability of someone to retain it in a human brain and you're putting it somewhere else. So we all just become these big shells that rely on the technology. And it's very dangerous because take it a step further and kind of alluding to what originally talked about the people who are giving the answers when you ask AI that is manipulated by the data that gets put into the AI searches. So if we took all of our time in the world, if I took the next year and all I did was pump AI and all of these hierarchical sources that I'm the greatest person that you've ever fucking met in your life. And someone types into AI, who's Joe Iredell? Guess what?
AI is going to tell you I'm the greatest person ever. Same as if I said it for the worst person. So this is how the information is no longer critically thought by a human being. It's housed by a third party and it's manipulated by the data that goes in. So that's where the danger is.
[00:25:55] Speaker B: I think that Joe is experiencing the Dunn Kruger effect right now.
I think that, I think that you know enough about it to, to, to be incorrect in your assumptions of what it really is. I, I don't think you're wrong in, in a lot of ways. But, but the way Jay said that the, the whole dining the way you started, conviction is worse. What is it? Conviction is a bigger threat to the truth.
Right?
[00:26:26] Speaker C: So, but disagree. Out of everything I just said, let's, let's break it down.
What's the main point that you disagree with what I said?
[00:26:38] Speaker B: I think that the, the fact that you would be able to influence the answer that I doesn't have the ability to sift through information and present it in a way that, that allows you to still use your human intelligence to interpret it.
[00:26:58] Speaker C: Where does that, where does AI get the information? Who puts the information?
[00:27:03] Speaker B: Well, I mean, if you, if, if you ask it to give you, if you ask it a controversial topic. Tell me about the no tax on tips that. What are, what are both sides of the argument? It'll lay out both sides of the argument. Right?
[00:27:16] Speaker C: Where's, where's AI going to get that information from, though? That, that's going to then present it from you? Would a human being or someone have to put that into a place where AI could fetch it and.
[00:27:27] Speaker B: Well, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And I'll tell you why.
[00:27:32] Speaker C: If there's. Here's the difference.
[00:27:33] Speaker B: Joe.
Joe, Human beings have an even worse confirmation bias because chances are, instead of gathering information from multiple sources, human beings are fed information from a predetermined source, I. E. The news channel they choose to watch or the websites that they choose to go to, or the radio stations they choose to listen to or the podcast they choose to listen to. So, so, you know, in that regard, it's, it's less of a threat because I do believe that AI at least pulls from multiple sources, which would then provide two sides to an argument rather than just one.
[00:28:07] Speaker C: You're, you're proving my point in Your objection? So what if 25% of the information that was being put into AI was pro something and 75% of that information was anti something? What is the consensus that AI is going to come up with and give you that answer?
And also too politically speaking, like there are things that you can't for grok and for different AI like ChatGPT, like they won't field certain political or incentive.
[00:28:41] Speaker B: Yeah, I know that that happens.
[00:28:44] Speaker C: So that proves, so that in itself proves the ability of the gatekeepers of this information.
It's able to be gate kept. Right. So that's one. But getting back to simply math. If I ask it a question and 25% of the information that it's fetching on a tier one hierarchy is presented versus 75% is con, what's the answer going to be? It's going to definitely.
I mean, we know the answer. So that's a rhetorical question.
[00:29:14] Speaker B: I guess again, depends on what it is you're trying to use it for. For Jay, I don't see you having that same issue.
And Jay, I hope you're here. Are you.
[00:29:21] Speaker A: No, this is good.
I think this is huge.
Well, because I think you guys having this brotherly discussion, these are the important topics. And I don't think that around this artificial intelligence that I don't know how well they're being flushed out or people. Because there, there are, there's almost two camps I've seen in this discussion. One is dogmatically just like pro AI AI where it can do no wrong and it's clearly not being leveraged in an effective manner. And then there's a camp that are very dismissive of it. If we're going to look at two extremes because, because, and you know, what's the, what's the middle ground? Right. So like, for. I'm going to share a personal example, like your feedback on this. If I, if I'm observing a leadership meeting, I'm already taking notes.
Now what are my notes comprised? They're going to be comprised of like what people are saying in the meeting that stands out like verbatim.
What's the nuance in that meeting? What's the energy telling me? I'm going to be like taking, you know, writing people's statements down. I'm going to be asking myself questions. I'm going to be sharing, you know, my thoughts on what the general themes are. Like if I'm in a leadership meeting, observing a conversation among executives around, you know, the agenda, what each, what each person in that meeting is presenting as far as their, their, their thesis, what they're working on, what the vision, what they think, the vision, you know, where they fit into the vision, what the general nuance of the organization is.
You know, it's business mechanism. Like I'm just downloading all this data before going into that meeting, around the business, around the brand, around the marketing initiatives, around the implicit strategy, around the core values, around like everything possible. Then you go into the meeting and you want to see how congruent, how congruent the human, the human agents, right? The individuals with agency, how congruent their words, their thoughts and their actions are to the whole organization. Like the whole kit kaboodle. What I got to weigh my assumptions, you know, my assumptions before getting in and around that leadership team from observing, right? Okay, so I'm taking notes in the meeting based on what people are saying, what they're not saying.
And, and If I take 40 pages of notes and I put that into, you know, into this artificial intelligence and ask it, can you reflect back to me patterns of behavior? What are some rational contradictions that were out, you know, that were articulated in the meeting based on each person. If I put in the autobiography or the biography, because I can use the Internet and get the biography of like, and I do, where everyone in that meeting worked, like, you know, how old are they? Where they worked, where they went to school, what they studied, the more data I put into that, I've done all this, right?
And then, hey, can you give me an ad? What's the personality type of each person in this room based on the information I presented, how they showed up in the meeting, like, if I start asking a million questions to the, to the artificial intelligence, what it's going to do is it's going to spit back to me.
It's going to give me what I have already collected, that's just going to give it back to me where it would take a couple weeks or it could just do it like very quickly, like.
[00:33:05] Speaker C: So your scenario that you're presenting, that's you are providing tier one authoritative input for that, right? So like you're not relying, you're sourcing where AI is looking to give you the answer, which you'll. So that's just a function of how AI works. So that'll get you an authentic, that'll get you what you're looking for, right? Because that's just pure data extrapolation and so forth. Because you're providing the data.
[00:33:31] Speaker A: Well, what I wanted to say with that is I don't think AI Can.
I've had to. I've had to work thousands of hours in, like, in businesses and of course, read and to write books and develop this. This wisdom from experience and from failure and success and developing an education to be able to have a conversation with myself like this.
The AI is just. I think this is what you're saying, Joe. The AI. The AI is just. I'm reflecting myself. If I didn't have the books and the experience and the wisdom and I couldn't do any of the things that I'm talking about because that's what the companies are paying for.
They're paying for that experience, that wisdom, and that education and the willingness to go do it, then this AI thing would be completely useless or very dangerous because I could think I know things I don't. I think that's what you guys are trying to say. Ken is trying to say, hey, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Like, there can be utility to it.
[00:34:40] Speaker B: I think that the. Yes, that is what I'm saying. There is a lot that does the heavy lift, not potentially from a creative standpoint, from a.
An aggregation of information standpoint, from an organizational standpoint of information, but if you're allowing it, if your goal with it as a tool is to.
If you're abdicating the interpretation, if you're abdicating that responsibility, then AI, yeah, then, yeah, Joe, you're right. Everyone's going to be dumber as a result.
[00:35:12] Speaker A: I. I'm seeing that, though. I think I am seeing that.
[00:35:15] Speaker C: But you're a lot like, we have. We are there right now, and it's not AI that's done it. It's. It's what. What news channel you follow. This is why there's so much so, you know, like, so divided, and there's so much getting back to our original confirmation bias. So you never argue with the man that holds the microphone, and the people that are inputting the information for AI to source it are essentially trying to grab the microphone.
That's what we have to be careful of because AI is so powerful and people can be like, oh, it's so smart. It does this, it does that. You don't realize that humans are inputting that information for it to source, and you can manipulate what gets put in for it to come up with its answer. It's garbage in, garbage out. So coming full circle was these podcasts and how to seek to be understood before you can be or seek to understand before you. So if you get to the point of, like, where did this information originally generate and how did we get it to where we are now? That is what at the, at the crux of, of what's happening. So just be very like the, the biggest fear is that AI becomes judge, jury and executioner on everything.
And because it's, it's so trusted and so much information, but the information, if it goes in flawed, which you can't. It's human nature to have flawed information. Studies come out years later and be like, oh, turns out asbestos was bad, or like, maybe we shouldn't have done that, or like all of that stuff that lives in the moment as truth. And when AI is accepting that as truth because it's put into the digital space, then you're not getting the right answers because it's propagates the untruth.
Exactly, dude. So that's where, that's where the danger of it is. And now take this a step further. Where people's ability to critically think and retain information in their brain because they're not exercising their brain, which is the muscle. Like we don't remember people's phone numbers, we don't remember directions anymore. You're, dude, you're literally relying on this and someone else's information that they put in ahead of you to be interpreted. So that's where the danger of AI is. Now with every danger comes opportunity.
I kind of alluded to this responsibility.
Exactly.
So we are seeing it on a small business level and so forth, where we, if we become the custodians of this information and we can put stuff into these tier 1, 2, 3 sources where AI comes from it. It's like the old SEO back in the day. We're gaining so much ability for people who are now using chat, GPT and so forth to identify our clients as experts, as the best in this, the best in that and so forth. And it is amazing because the thing with, with AI and information, because it's constantly learning and it's compounding information, it's like compounding interest. Someone who starts tomorrow is already 100 years behind the guy that started today.
So that's where it's not even a fair fight. And so if you get in it now, you get in it early. I don't know how you can reverse it. And that's what's. When you talk like Bill Gates and Elon and all them, they're like the biggest threat to our society is AI. Like, it's scary, it's a, it's a major thing. And that's why there's so much Talk behind the scenes about it. It's because you. I'm seeing it personally, we can manipulate it and it's, it's not a good thing necessarily.
[00:39:00] Speaker A: So you're speaking more in like an existential sense, like the, the, the human information systems can become corrupt because of whoever controls the information flow and the information filter.
[00:39:14] Speaker C: Correct.
[00:39:15] Speaker A: Just like on a macro sense. Just like if I'm, if I'm a layperson, I don't know. If I knew how to solve my problem, I'd be able to solve it.
But now all of a sudden I, I think I'm an expert because I'm having a layperson conversation with AI and I'm getting back answers that now I'm thinking are true when I don't know enough to know if they're true or not.
That's, that creates a.
[00:39:43] Speaker C: It'S a Trojan.
[00:39:44] Speaker A: You'Re saying in a macro sense that could be used.
[00:39:47] Speaker B: Well, don't you think humans, don't you think humans have been dealing with this since the first written word? I mean, you know, the, the, the, the Bible at one time was, that was a primary source of information for a lot of cultures. And, you know, were they given the opportunity to critically think about the information that they were being given, or were they broadly accepting whatever their spiritual and religious leader and their community was, was giving them? Like, we've evolved as a species to be able to navigate this challenge, wouldn't you say? Like, yeah. Is it really that threatening?
[00:40:27] Speaker C: Yes. And the reason, because the Bible was a single source at the time, and then what happened was not really.
[00:40:33] Speaker B: It was a conglomeration of a bunch of sources. In fact, there was multiple and versions of it.
[00:40:39] Speaker C: Okay, so let's just call it the Bible. Right? Like, I'm using your words, okay? The Bible, people were like, that's a single source of where people got information. Okay. Then as civilization started to connect with each other and they find out, okay, there's other forms of information, there's the Torah, there's this, there's that. Maybe there's different perspectives. It got knowledge, got spread out, and then other things started to come into play where you had point, counterpoint, and so forth. And that's existed for the past, let's say a couple thousand years. Right. We're now again getting to the point where all that information is being driven back to a single source, which is the Internet and AI and so forth. So that's where it gets scary, because there's no other counterpoint. If you don't, if you access Information and your only point of humans, the majority of humans only access point of information is a chat GPT or an AI engine, then like that's what's. What's scary.
I'm gonna. One of the reasons why this is so fresh on my head is I was in, I was at the coliseums in Rome two days ago and at one point Nero and Caesar, they, they ruled like 75% of the people in the world. And they did it through like it's fascinating, dude, but it was all just because of the dissemination of information that they gave to these people and everyone.
You couldn't find other stuff like if you wanted to learn about art or you wanted to learn about agriculture, anything like that. It was all controlled and everyone agreed to it because there was no other places to find it that were not convenient. Right?
So like, yes, there are critical thinkers in the world that'll be like, I got this answer on ChatGPT and I think it's bullshit. However, the majority of people are not going to take that step. And that's where it's dangerous in the sense that like when you have a herd mentality of this information that's being accurate versus the people who are critical thinkers and say maybe not. And again, dude, we saw it during COVID We see it like constantly, recently and those people get smashed. It's like, no, it's you know, horse drugs or whatever. It's like, oh wait, maybe it wasn't right. So like this is where the danger is.
[00:42:55] Speaker B: Which brings us to my. So, so Jay, the important. You've talked about this. You've talked about this in your, on your, your Facebook or, excuse me, your Instagram reels and a lot of your other podcasts. But the necessity for the critical thinker and the requirement for a leader to be open to alternative ideas. Talk about what, Joe, what we've been talking about for the last 20 minutes.
What should a leader, what should a CEO who's listening to this take away from this conversation with regard to the need for.
[00:43:29] Speaker A: The.
[00:43:31] Speaker B: The devil's advocate. Let's just say.
[00:43:41] Speaker A: Well, if I, if I'm in the top seat, how my aim, my vision and the amount that I'm sacrificing for my business will have an influence on my ability to hear other, to hear descent, to be capable. Yeah, I think there is a relationship with.
There is a relationship between the engagement of the ultimate authority and the ability to recognize and interpret, recognize, analyze, interpret dissent.
There's also, there's also. It's interesting because, because we talk about the AI and, and, and how to in, in integrate it into our, our, our habits, our rituals. It's, it's like a lot can come from a liberal arts education, right? Learning how to read and to write, being excited.
[00:44:52] Speaker B: I always thought liberal arts education just resulted in a low starting salary.
[00:44:59] Speaker A: I mean, it's interesting.
I guess it does. But at the same time, I would argue that a liberal arts education is probably paramount to many of the founders that are listening, that don't just want to be fired from their own organizations by private buyers because it's the spirit of learning, like unlearning and maturing into the role as the chief as that organization outgrows everyone, including its founders, that would lead to maintaining relevance for a business owner in their own business in this. And we, we are in a society, you know, heightened. There's a, heightened there, there's. I was having a conversation at lunch today about just this thing because we're at, we're on the shore, like physically, I'm on the shore, at the shore right now at a night, a nicer part of the Jersey Shore.
And, and I was making the point that I think a lot of these homes that are on the water are likely homes of those that have benefited from private investment.
Like 60 years ago, that plumbing business that did 4 million a year in earnings, in gross, you know, earnings.
What was their succession? What did their succession look like?
You know, they probably either sold it to a, you know, competitor down the street that they kind of knew and kind of walked off and dealt with whatever, or they maybe pass it down to us, to the next generation, you know, a son that was going to, that was going to run it.
But in 2025, they might get eight times EBITDA earnings before interest.
What interest, depreciation, amortization, tax, tax, you know, EBITDA.
They might get eight times the 4 million and maybe they'll get half in cash, like so.
Yeah, many of these homes down, down the Jersey Shore might just be consequences of these everyday entrepreneurs having these massive liquidity events. Well, what, what, what does that mean for society? What does that mean for culture? What does that mean for the everyday entrepreneur that may, in another universe may have just run that business for another 40 years and been perfectly happy doing so and may have wanted to stay in that seat? And what does this have to do with the question? I think a lot of this comes down to learning and unlearning. And what I would say to the person in that position of authority is, I guess I think that there's never been a bigger opportunity for information to be in your hands, in your head, at your disposal. But one of the great ironies of the time is that that's being abdicated and it's being used against you like as opposed to being an opportunity for that small entrepreneur to have all the information and have all the talent to want to work with them, for them and beat the man and like grow their business into like, you know, a great thing that is theirs. I think it's, you know.
Oh, let's just.
I'm not going to figure out the dissent thing. I'm not going to surround myself with no people like Churchill. I just, you know, I haven't, I'm stuck in that phase of the yes people.
And so somebody else is going to give me, you know, I'm going to work for somebody else. I'm going to, I'm going to take the money, I'm going to walk off into the sunset and that's going to solve my problems. I don't think it is. I, I don't think that is. I think the, the education piece is going to solve the problem. And I don't think we, to Joe's point, I don't think it makes sense for us to broker out our brain power or third, you know what?
Yeah, broker it out.
Why not integrate with it, why not synthesize with it? I think we're going to see more businesses with less labor and higher profit margins in the next 10 years. Like everyday small businesses that just have way more productivity and way more output.
Probably less staff, but more vendor and 1099 and I'm going in a couple different directions here.
It's like a renaissance for small business.
[00:49:42] Speaker C: Exact. Dude, perfectly put the different. This is the most. If anyone listening takes this away now, right now, tomorrow was a better time to embrace it, but today is a second better time.
[00:49:57] Speaker B: Yesterday was a better time.
[00:49:59] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:50:00] Speaker A: Oh yeah. Yesterday.
[00:50:01] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:50:01] Speaker C: Gotcha. Yes. So dude, if you're not, if you haven't, if you have a business, you haven't talked to somebody or you haven't started the path of figuring out how this is applicable to what you do, I can promise that your competition is. And you are never going to catch them.
And what happens, what will happen because of the nature of the compounding information and intelligence that happens is you will, they'll.
The pie will be shared by few, not many.
[00:50:36] Speaker A: Oh wait, I want to add something here. Joe, cuz you said something earlier to answer Ken, you, you said what you've gotten from this show is this is how I interpreted it.
Not just what, you know, that people think different things, but why they think it. And what I took from that was like, okay, empathy can come from that compassion.
Just general growth in, like a simple way.
You know, I think that's a.
[00:51:13] Speaker C: The.
[00:51:15] Speaker A: I think to lead in the 21st century, that has to happen at a higher scale because. Because it. Back in the day, we could. We. That. That employer, employee dichotomy.
We don't need to talk about the funnies, like the, the ice, the whipped cream. It's like, did you do your job or did you not do your job? Like, are you getting it done or you're not? I don't need to know your feelings. I don't care about who you are. I don't know what your familial background is. None of that mattered in the industrial age. It's like people went to work and they got a job done for their families.
Yeah. And so that culture. And there's pros to that. Like, there is certain values that like. Like obligation and responsibility and like, that helps individuals grow on some interesting level. But today we would say people are more entitled. Well, like they are in the sense that there's an entitlement that comes to the access of information and options and choice. And so with the higher entitlement is a higher call to responsibility of those that employ to be more emotionally educated, to be.
[00:52:30] Speaker C: Would you think that or say that that's. That's a function of control.
So like, in order to control. So back in the day, like everybody should.
[00:52:38] Speaker A: Manipulation.
[00:52:40] Speaker B: Control of manipulation.
[00:52:42] Speaker C: Yeah, like, not necessarily control. No control. So. Yeah. Or manipulation. Right. So like, in order to get my employee to do the best job and stay and whatever, then, like, it behooves me to get to know them on a more personal level and empathize, understand, you know, what they're feeling and where they're coming from and what drives them and so forth. Because that will then enable me to be able to keep my herd intact. And like, Prior, if there's a factory where it's like, these employees are basically replaceable, next man up, then I don't need to do that. Just show up, do your job nine to five. Like kind of. So I know the transgression has happened, but it's ultimately like, these are all functions of tools needed to control.
[00:53:28] Speaker A: All right, here's my response. No, it reminds me. So like, there's this. There's this video I saw once of the rebbe. He was a famous rabbi at The Rebbe. And he was smearson and he was challenging, he was challenged. He was reading some scripture, ultimately saying, you know, if you don't believe in tithing, you know, God is saying, you know, do it, like, challenge me. Give, give, give everything you possibly can. And. And you'll see you'll get that much more back and more, like, basically challenge me with your giving. God is saying to us, like, challenge me with your giving.
And. And you're going to continuously get more back than you give.
Like, basically challenge me to that.
And I would say that, though. So for the. The individual that might want to challenge, like, and, you know, all right, I'm going to give because I'm going to get something, right. They start off giving. They're going to give a million dollars because they want to get 10 million back.
They're going to take the challenge from the Rebbe, right.
By the time they've given 10 million, they might actually enjoy it.
Or, like, it's kind of changed then.
So I would say that, say the person that. Let's say you start off saying, all right, if I get to know my people, because it's going to work, like, they're going to work more.
They're going to do more in the process of getting to know them, that person might just end up liking some of them and, like. And still not liking some of the others.
[00:55:10] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:55:11] Speaker A: And liking themselves more. So, like, what I'm saying is. Yeah, yeah, sure. Like, it might start off as manipulation. Or I might say, I'm going to give $10 million this year because I want to get back 100 million because God says I'm going to get 10 times a return. But by the time I've given the 10 million, I'm giving because it's, like, done something to me.
So. So that would be my. My response.
Yes, I think you're right.
[00:55:35] Speaker C: The Peter rules in effect there too, though. Like, if you. Unless you're to a position because of the Peter rule, like, you're empathetic already. Like, you're not a great leader until you already possess those skills and. And have that in the beginning. So, like, what you're talking about is, like, somebody just gets dropped in there and they're a prick and they're not empathetic. And then they change their ways. And then in the process of changing their ways because they're ultimately looking for the end goal. They're like, oh, hey, it's kind of.
[00:56:02] Speaker A: It does something to us, impacts us.
[00:56:05] Speaker C: And then his heart turned ten times its size. In the process of being empathetic. Right.
[00:56:09] Speaker A: A Grinch. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[00:56:11] Speaker C: No, no, I, I understand. I get that. I agree with that 100%. But I'm, I'm looking.
[00:56:17] Speaker A: There are plenty of leaders that don't care. And like, it's there, it's a, there's a timing for, it's like a new, like which, which person in a position of authority are we going to need in a wartime might be different than a peacetime.
Sure. And you see this with organizations, there's a different CEO for a certain time than in a, like a peacetime versus a wartime is a different person, that position.
[00:56:43] Speaker C: And the question becomes weak men.
[00:56:46] Speaker A: Yeah. So like then who do we need?
[00:56:48] Speaker C: Hard times. And hard times create strong men.
Have you heard that?
[00:56:52] Speaker A: So which one do we need? And then I guess the question becomes, you know, can we be what? And that's, that's a very individual conversation is, you know, if I'm a we, if I'm I, anyone, I want to keep my business, I want to continue to lead it. I enjoy it. And I, and I, and I like what has, what I like who I'm becoming from this journey.
Husband, father, son, family, community, leader. What I don't, I don't want to quit. I want, I want to continue on this journey. Well, it's, it's, it's like a journey of growth. Who do I have to become in this season of my business? And if I'm, if I'm not becoming that person, I'll be replaced by the marketplace or the board or the new investor. Like, I will be replaced with someone that can fit that season. I think then it comes down to like an agency conversation and what do you eat? What do each of us want? Right. And then of course, that, that can change. So, Ken, it looks like you have something you really want to throw in here.
[00:57:56] Speaker B: I just, I, I, I appreciate you reading that cue. I was trying not to, you know, interrupt and because I, I, I, I agree. I, I appreciate everything that you're saying.
Progress is, is, is critical. Progress is, from a business, pure business perspective, Wall Street.
Wall street rewards progress. Wall street does not reward, you know, status quo. If you're not growing, you're failing.
On Wall Street, CEOs are often bonused on growth. They're not bonused on keeping things the same and the status quo. And it's the same for human beings. It's the same for, you know, like you said, you have to become the person capable of leading a larger organization.
And yeah, I think getting to know your people is an important part of the process. And to Joe's point. Yeah.
What is your intention? If your intention is to find out what their buttons are so you can push it in a certain way to get them to emotionally, you know, to act on emotion and do something that you need them to do because you're tyrannical in that regard, then, yeah, that's. That's messed up. And yes, I do think that there are leaders out there that do that, and that's emotional manipulation. But I don't think that, you know, someone who's truly trying to learn who their people are and their background and, and what their dreams and their goals are so that when opportunities present themselves where, as a leader, I can help bring that to that person, I think that's a beautiful thing. I don't think it's a. I don't think it's a.
[00:59:41] Speaker C: It's.
[00:59:41] Speaker B: It's a. It's why you're in that position. It's why you should. Why you should be in that position. You know, as a leader, as. Especially as a CEO of an organization that's growing, like, yeah. Your job is to help as many people as possible, whether it's your clients and your customers, it's also your people. And if you don't know what. If you don't know them, you don't know what makes them tick, if you don't know what it, what, what it is they want out of life, then you really can't help. And if you can't help, then I think you're leaving a lot on the table as far as life, fulfillment. So, no, I think there's far fewer leaders out there that learn and learn about their people so that they can manipulate them, but they do exist.
[01:00:27] Speaker A: I'd like to speak about the customer piece for a second because I think a lot of what the team learns is from observing us with our customers.
And I think when a company gets to a certain point of size goes from like, you know, no org chart to an org chart, it can be.
It can. It can naturally almost disjoint from the customer experience, the customer focus.
Because now there's this organizational chart to pay attention to.
There's all these people to pay attention to.
And that can send the management in almost like a tailspin, overly focused on the people and not enough refocused and reimagining the customer and the customer journey and the customer satisfaction and the customer. Like the actual purpose of a business, Peter Drucker said, is to serve, is to create and keep customers.
The purpose of a business is to create and keep a customer. And like that is why we're in business, is to serve our customers.
And it could be hard, almost a blind spot, especially in the, in the era that we have today, which the landscape, the employment landscape is different.
Like people, the culture is different, the, the average rate. So it's how do we actually motivate and inspire our, our people. A lot of it will come down to who are our customers, where are they, why do we exist?
Are and are we actually serving them? Is that being experienced and seen in real time, do our, do our staff actually believe that? We believe in the, in the business now how are they going to judge that? They're going to judge it by seeing our work ethic. They're going to judge it by seeing our sacrifice and our buy in. So like you have the, you know, the Lambo CEO, the Lambo CEOs out by three in the Lambo headed to the boat.
But like they're the value steward of the organization and they may not, they're not in a season currently to rep, to go and field calls with the underlings. Well, there's going to be consequences. Doesn't matter if they're in the season or not of that.
You know, it doesn't matter. It's still going to light up and change the culture in a better way. When the people that are, they're looking for a faith, they're looking something to believe in, they see the leader of the, of the institution living the Ten Commandments, they're like, all right, it's, there's something here. This is like, this is real. This isn't just a bunch of words and a bunch of whatever. Like there's something here behavior is that.
[01:03:19] Speaker C: Like aspirational in that, in that point where like everybody who's working in a company wants to, you know, do better or whatever, right? So if you see the, the boss or the boy and they're how they act is like direct result of the other cool stuff that people want. Like then that's, that's the aspirational side of it, you know, so and that instance, it's like, well dude, like this guy doesn't work at all. I'm doing all the work and he gets the Lambo. So that's where lead by example type of, you know, it's, it's all.
[01:03:53] Speaker A: But there's naturally a friction in that because at the end of the day is the founding or like the, the management, right?
It, what is the expectation of Them are they supposed to, let's say, you know, the ownership supposed to.
I, I, I, I, I. This is kind of where I am with it. It's like if, if the ownership are not eaten by the organization that people are.
[01:04:17] Speaker C: Well, like, you know, like there's a huge trade off.
When he's like, dad, like, they're like, what? This is too much, Jordan. He's like, I need them to want to be like me. I need them to see it. I need them to see all this because I need them to want to be like me and believe. So like, so in that instance, you have a Lambo on a boat and so forth. Like you want them to see that, but then you don't want them to see you not how working to get that. So that there always needs to be a connection. I just put my kids in sports too. Like, it's always super important to draw the corollary between the hard work and the result. So the reward is the Lambo, the boat, whatever. So if all you're showing is the rewards and you're not drawing the corollary between the work and the rewards, then people will be like, well, this like he got lucky, or like there's some other reason, or I'm doing all the work and they're getting all the rewards and so forth. So that's why it's like super important.
[01:05:12] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:05:12] Speaker C: To, you know, it comes as very simple lead by example and connect the, the hard work with the, the spoils of the, you know, the work.
[01:05:23] Speaker B: Lead by example questions. Joe, you had, you just rattled off like four or five questions.
And, and I think that questions are the human version of reflection. Right. Like we especially when, you know, if you're emotionally intelligent enough that you can sit back and allow yourself to be questioned and allow yourself to formulate your own questions against your conviction.
I think that's the antidote, Joe, as we, as we continue to. As we wrap up, we. This is the longest episode we've had yet at an hour and five minutes, and it felt like 10 minutes.
But the antidote is to question everything, to question your own convictions, question the conviction and the authority of the artificial intelligence, and allow yourself to be questioned and be open to dissent as a leader, as a business owner, as a creative person or creative thinker.
I believe that we as a species have.
We as a species have.
We've navigated these waters before, Joe. And I don't feel threatened that we will find ourselves oppressed by the artificial intelligence. But you're right that everything needs to be questioned.
And we should question the results of our queries, know what questions to ask. Whether we're reflecting and asking questions of ourselves or reflecting and asking questions of the source of information that we're getting, it's incredibly important. But I can say this.
What I, the words that I wrote down today, I was listening for what represents real intelligence over artificial intelligence. Some of the words that jumped out at me, number one, is curiosity.
I think curiosity is a function of real intelligence.
I think that information gathering and discovery is a function of real intelligence. Information gathering, sourcing information from the Internet as AI does is not the same as what Jay does when he sits in a room and he observes people. I think that's a function of real intelligence. And I think synthesizing information and using your own intuition and your own, you know, what you saw, I don't know that that will ever be replaced. And I think that what that's going to do for us as operators, as salespeople, as leaders, it's going to allow us to increase our capacity. It's going to, you know, the, the AI will increase our capacity so that we can drill down on the. What a big word we've been using at work at our company last lately is the last mile. We as human beings, our personal human intelligence is always going to be responsible for the last mile. No matter what technology does for us in, as a tool, we will always be responsible for last mile and how we execute and how we build relationships and how we, you know, we, we, we adapt and how we change and how, you know, and how we succeed. So I think I'd love to stop right there because I think that was so eloquent, but I'll give you guys the last word.
[01:08:34] Speaker C: Did you just, did you just get that off of Chat GPT?
It was pretty succinct. I will, I'll, I'll say this, this is, this is my theory. So humankind has never been at the precipice of such a huge force that will change everything that we, we know and operate. And the last mile starts with the first step.
And so if you trip on the first step or if the first step puts you in the wrong direction, that last mile is going to be at the wrong destination.
That's why it's scary that the first step can be manipulated so easily by the information that gets put in.
So when you seek to first understand before you're understood, and the understanding comes from information that's being fed to that first step, that's what's scary. And that's what's dangerous. And the the rest remains to be seen. And if you're using AI is the most amazing thing, I think, in our lifetime for utilitarian functions that you mentioned. Yes, save time, convenience, all that great stuff. But on a larger scale, if we're allowing it to sculpt our opinions and the way that we think, much as the news has for years now, then it's, it's going to be dangerous. And that's.
That's. I'll leave it with that. Never argue with the man with the microphone.
[01:10:17] Speaker B: Jay.
[01:10:19] Speaker A: If I have six hours to chop down a tree, I'll spend the first four hours sharpening my blade.
Abraham Lincoln.
[01:10:29] Speaker B: I love it, man. Thank you as always, Jay. Thank you for being a friend. Thank you for your support. Thank you for showing up. Thank you for your introductions, thank you for this awesome record breaking episode. And if you're still listening at an hour and 10 minutes, let's put it in chat.
[01:10:45] Speaker C: GPT, 15 bullet points. It'll be smarter than anybody.
[01:10:51] Speaker B: All right boys, be good.
[01:10:54] Speaker A: Thanks for listening to Selling the Dream. We know you don't want to miss a single episode, so go subscribe today, wherever you get your podcasts and then make sure to share the show with your friends and leave us a review.
