Episode Transcript
[00:00:09] Speaker A: You're listening to selling the dream. This isn't an interview, and we're not journalists. But each week, we'll ask our guests to open up and share their secrets to business success. Let's have a conversation and have some fun.
[00:00:24] Speaker B: Hey, everybody. Welcome to selling the dream, our podcast where we talk about entrepreneurship, we talk about sales, we talk about success, we talk about failure, we talk about a lot of things here.
And with me, as always, is my co host on the other coast, Joe Iredell in California. Joe, what's happening, man?
[00:00:44] Speaker A: What's up, man?
[00:00:46] Speaker B: Yeah, so, pretty crazy couple of weeks. How's that look? Does that look better? Yeah, that looks a little better.
[00:00:51] Speaker A: Not the camera, bro.
[00:00:56] Speaker B: So how have you been? Things are good.
[00:00:59] Speaker A: Crushing it, dude. I'm so excited for the new year and everything that we got on the table here moving forward.
2023 was amazing, and 2024 is already. We're five days in, and I can't believe what's on the horizon. It's awesome.
[00:01:23] Speaker B: Well, I want to talk to you a little bit about one of your newest initiatives. But before I do, I got to talk about myself. It's kind of the priority here. Talk about me.
[00:01:33] Speaker A: More important.
[00:01:34] Speaker B: Always more important. I threw my back out this week. I'm 45 years old.
I've never been through a more humbling experience than herniating a disc.
And it's been a hell of a.
[00:01:48] Speaker A: Couple of days, bro.
I'm not going to get on my soapbox with you, man.
No, you know what? I am. You know why? Because this is important to hear. And you know me. You've known me forever, bro. And back in the day, dude, I think I party harder than anybody there is and work hard, play hard. All this about two years ago when I got into fighting and training and all this kind of stuff. Quit drinking and I start waking up at 430 every morning. These two things will change your life. And until you do that, you're going to continue to feel aging. And I promise you, man, when you hurt yourself like that, it's not because it happened. It's because of the series of things you've done up to that point.
[00:02:43] Speaker B: So, bro, you're absolutely right. And I had that thought literally this morning.
What I'm going through the last couple of days is literally a gift from my previous self to my present self.
My previous self was not kind to my present self because if it was, I would have been eating better, I would have been exercising better, I would have been doing my stretches before I go out there and try and deadlift all of those things that I should have been doing and I wasn't doing. And it was a good eye opener. And if I want to honor my future self, I got to start making those changes right now. And this is a very painful lesson to learn. Did I tell you how it all went down?
A little bit, but I was deadlifting and I tweaked my back.
[00:03:30] Speaker A: I didn't.
[00:03:30] Speaker B: My body.
[00:03:31] Speaker A: You didn't listen to me either. You shouldn't deadlift, dude. You're not like, what are you doing, bro?
[00:03:38] Speaker B: Hold on.
[00:03:39] Speaker A: Before you go any further, can we just throw this out here, man? When you work out, all right, you listen to these trainers, dude. Just let them know you're not going in the cage, you're not going to fight, dude. You're not going to do whatever. So you have to work out appropriately, dude, what you should be doing right now is a lot of stretch. You should not be doing deadlifts, dude. You shouldn't be doing leg day, stupid, bro. Like stretch, cardio, nothing. You know what I mean? Like, treat your body nice, bro. Eat right, treat it nice. You'll get super strong.
[00:04:10] Speaker B: Lots of it wasn't that I only tweaked my back when I was deadlifting, was when I went to pick up a pillow that my entire world got flipped upside down.
[00:04:18] Speaker A: Okay. All right. I'm just saying, bro.
[00:04:21] Speaker B: Dude, it was humbling. I was on the ground for about 6 hours. I could not get up.
[00:04:25] Speaker C: Couldn't get up.
[00:04:26] Speaker B: It was crazy. So now, that was Monday. So now here we are. I can get up and down on my own. I still can't put my socks and shoes on. Very humbling. So that's been my week.
Well, dude, about me.
[00:04:41] Speaker A: You know what? Listen, man, think about it. We have a new year, and the good news is this should be the worst that you feel all year. Good point. This should be the absolute worst you feel. So you started at the worst, and now you only have to go up. So do my two tricks, dude. No drinking and wake up early. Like 05:00 a.m. Every day. I get up at 430, I get up at 515.
[00:05:09] Speaker B: But, yeah, I'll push that back a little bit.
Let's talk about your new initiative, man. Home front fighters. How's it going? Tell everybody what that is.
[00:05:17] Speaker A: It's amazing, bro.
So to give a backstory, some of the guys I train with are, and this is actually a pretty common thread. A lot of jujitsu guys and mma guys are former military, active military, and I've had the pleasure to train with and get to know a lot of our special operations guys, like steel team guys. And we got into some pretty deep conversations about what is that like when you're on a mission and it's about you're about to go in and just do the craziest stuff, gnarly things that a human couldn't even possibly imagine. What's that? Fear and all. What are you thinking about? And the one common thread that they all say, which shocked me, is I'm thinking about my bills getting paid, my wife taking the kids to soccer.
I'm going to go in and blow the shit out of people. It's like what's happening at home? And it got me. I said, you know what? We got to do something about that. And so I came up with home front fighters. And what we do is we offer free experiences for spouses of active military.
We're actually having one coming up. We're going to do a free day of teaching self defense and a little jujitsu. And I'm going to have an expert, financial expert come in, talk about just finances. And we're going to have lunch provided and it's all free for military spouses.
We've also launched an initiative for gift cards, so partially used gift cards. I have a bunch of restaurants and businesses here in Southern California that will serve as distribution or drop off parts for people that you get a gift card you don't want or if you've used it, you don't know how much of a balance you can just drop it off and donate it to us. And we'll provide meals and things like that. Just cool stuff for these military families. Give them a break and take their stress a little bit because they're the ones at home that are fighting for our men and women that are over there protecting us.
[00:07:36] Speaker B: We've talked about it and I think it's absolutely awesome what you're doing. And we're not trying to make a necessarily commercial here, but at the end of the day, I think the word does need to get out. Where can people go if they want to learn more about it?
[00:07:49] Speaker A: So right now, go to homefrontfighters.org. There's a sign up for more information.
We have some 501 pending and so forth, so it's going to get buttoned up a little bit more in the next upcoming weeks as we do these events, but that'll be our main focus. And then if you find us on Instagram, home front fighters is our handle. And we just recently did a sponsored about ten families on Camp Pendleton who otherwise probably wouldn't have been able to provide the best Christmas for their kids. So we sponsored these families. We went out, we raised about $8,000 and bought Christmas gifts for the kids and the families and so forth. So there's a little video on there to that. It's cool.
[00:08:36] Speaker B: I'm proud of you, Joe. And I can tell you right now that you've grown as a human, because the Joe I knew 20 years ago cared about Joe. That's true.
So I'm proud of you, man. Keep it up. I hope it becomes wildly successful, and I hope it keeps you busy. And obviously, anything I could do to help you and support you in that, I think it's awesome. And I'm glad that we got a chance to talk about it here today, because we talk about each other enough on these podcasts, I think.
But I'm glad you got a chance to share that.
[00:09:07] Speaker A: Thank you, man.
[00:09:09] Speaker B: So we got a pretty fun guest today, Lindsay Cohen. Lindsay is a career development coach. She helps with resume writing, interview preparation, web design, web development. Basically, she's also in professional sales.
Lindsay is what seems to be an absolute rock star in the sales world. And whether you're selling yourself or whether you're selling a product, Lindsay's got some stuff figured out. So I just want to take a minute to introduce Lindsay to our fan. The one person listening to our podcast. It's usually my brother Phil. So shout out to Phil, because they're the only ones that ever caught me and say, hey, I like your podcast. So if I give them a shout out, then I'll know if they know.
[00:09:57] Speaker A: Hey, KJ, you got to let your brothers know that next time I'm in Philly, we're going to a Phantoms game, and it's on.
[00:10:03] Speaker B: I don't think you want me and my brothers in one room for more than about an hour.
[00:10:09] Speaker A: Neither do the Philadelphia Phantoms.
[00:10:12] Speaker B: There you go.
So, Lindsay, welcome to selling the dream, and thank you for coming on and joining us today as we sit around and talk shit.
[00:10:23] Speaker C: Thank you both for having me. And shout out to Phil. He's a lot more supportive than my siblings would be, so I can appreciate that. When I see it, they don't listen to anything.
[00:10:33] Speaker B: It's so funny. Well, why don't we do this? Why don't you just take a minute and kind of bolster the introduction that I gave, just so I want to make sure I didn't miss anything. And then I'm going to get right into that topic. So go ahead and tell people more about who you are.
[00:10:46] Speaker C: Yes. So I have a resume building business called Limitless with Lynn's, where I build resumes, revamp cover letters, revamp LinkedIn, provide interview prep, and just coaching from the start to finish, because my biggest thing is I didn't want to drop clients once we got them in the door. What do you do next? Right. So that has been the biggest model of the business growing over the last six years that I've had it. And it really started from friends and family and really doing it for free into a full blown business over the years.
And that has been a lot of growth. And then also, I have a job in pharmaceutical sales that I love as well, and kind of love keeping busy, don't like to sit still. Not a big Netflix kind of girl. So I like to keep busy and kind of have my hands on a lot of different businesses and projects and start new ventures when I can, when it's something I'm really passionate about. And helping people is definitely top on that list.
[00:11:44] Speaker B: Awesome. So before we jump in, we always start with two truths and a lie. So we're going to start there hopefully prepared. Joe is listening for all the clues that he can hear throughout the course of this conversation to uncover which one is the lie. Why don't you give us your two truths and a lie?
[00:12:01] Speaker C: Okay, so I have been to Australia. I own a rental property, and I have two older sisters.
[00:12:10] Speaker B: All right, got that, Joe?
[00:12:13] Speaker A: I got it.
[00:12:14] Speaker B: All right, so family.
Family. We're entrepreneurs and salespeople, especially starting out the family trap, you think, oh, I can rely on my friends and family.
But that's not always the case, is it, Lindsay?
[00:12:32] Speaker C: It isn't. And I have to say, for me, I was fairly lucky because that's actually where it started for me. So for maybe most people, not the case. But for me, it started when a lot of my sister, my cousin, they said, oh, you think you have something here? Can you do my resume? And next thing you know, they got in at the door at Amazon and Wells Fargo, and they weren't qualified. I really knew what I was doing to get them in the door. So that's actually where it started. I was doing it for free. So then what happened is I started putting it on social media more that I do these services, which is obviously all my friends and family. And then Covid hit. And who did those friends and family go to? The only person they knew that did this type of service when they lost their job during COVID which was me, because I really did brand myself in that way on social media. So for me, I was very different. You're right, most people can't because you don't want to go to your friends and family. When it comes to business money, it's kind of awkward. But for me, that's actually where it started. And they are so happy to refer me and talk about me whenever they know other people that might need the business or that might need this service as well. So I will say I could not agree more. My sisters sometimes aren't always the most excited to talk about this business, but they are very excited to support me and drop my name whenever they know someone that might need it.
[00:13:49] Speaker B: But they don't listen to your podcast. Will they listen to this?
[00:13:52] Speaker C: Probably not. It was so funny, my dad, the last podcast I was on, he was like, yeah, I got halfway through it and he was like, seven minutes in and I was like, dad, it was 45 minutes long.
Family, it shoots through the roof.
[00:14:07] Speaker B: Yeah, I found that working with, when you start a business, I think that a lot of times it's tough. Your family wants you to succeed, but if you put all your eggs in that family basket, I think you can find yourself in a really bad spot. I think that it's so important to go out there and build your brand with people that don't know you. And it's as important. You're building a brand with people that don't know you as you are the people that do know you, and you're relying, and even the real estate industry, you get these agents that get their real estate license, and you see it all the time. And all of a sudden that a family member hires another agent to sell their house or buy their house, and it's heartbreaking. It's devastating. And I think that a lot of times, whether it's people don't want you to know their business, they don't want you to know your income or whatever. From a salesperson's perspective, I always try and give the advice, like, yes, utilize your sphere of influence, but, man, don't bank on it, right? Don't put all those eggs in that basket. Joe, when you and Laura started shoresites, did you guys have any family support? Were any of your early clients family members?
[00:15:17] Speaker A: I don't know if my family is different. I assume that they're not. But I feel that when, anytime that this is a big detriment. I don't know. This could be a stumbling block for an entrepreneur originally. But then when you realize that it's actually empowerment. It's important. But anytime that I would come up with a crazy idea, I'm going to do this. The first people to tell me that it's stupid or it's not going to work or come up with every reason not to do it is my family. They were like, no way. Why don't you do this? Just do this and that. Because they don't have the vision, even though we all grew up the same way, essentially. And the reason why you're an entrepreneur and the reason why you're successful at doing things and creating things is because you see the world differently than everybody else. And the people who have the balls to tell you what they think are usually your family. So for in my instance, no, we got zero support and in fact got the opposite of when things started to go successful. They'd be like, oh, well, maybe it's because of this or that. So nobody even gives you credit once you start to become successful, until over time and even still, there's like, well, they did this because of this. And then it becomes, like internally on them, like, well, I couldn't have done it.
No. So if you know that going in as an entrepreneur, that your family and your friends are going to be your, let's be nice about it, say harshest critics, then I use the fuel to be like, you know what, fu, dude, watch this. Watch me do this.
[00:17:03] Speaker B: What's funny is, though, it's coming from a place of love, right, and caring.
It's almost like they're doing it to protect you, right?
[00:17:12] Speaker A: No, I'm not saying that my family, we don't have great love for each other and so forth, but I think that there's something inherent when it comes to ambition and success and so forth, that people will naturally have an insecurity about their own ambition and success and they look to bring other to normalize what they're doing and be like, no, well, you can't do this because I'm doing everything right over here. And if I'm doing everything right and you're doing it this way, then there's no way that can work because I know I'm right and people are just stubborn. And then when it works, then it's like, well, it's because of this. It's not because of this. They can't draw the connections and just be like, well, maybe that guy's just smarter than me, or maybe they had the balls to do it and I didn't. So that's where you get all these detractors and haters, because this is why they couldn't come up with the idea in the first place, because they're so in their lane, it's like, no, there's no way that could work. And so you just have to understand that, that these people, and it's mainly family, because they're the ones that are going to tell you to your face that this isn't going to work. That's because they truly believe that it's not going to work. And then when it does work, they're going to make excuses why it didn't, because it's not how they see.
[00:18:33] Speaker B: So two ends of the coin, right? Two sides of the coin. Lindsay, your business, spawned from family support, whereas Joe, your business, spawned in spite of family support. So as a business owner, you could experience either one of those two realities.
I think that both of you give very helpful guidance to see how either one of those directions go for entrepreneurs out there.
[00:19:00] Speaker C: And I think Joe, too, just to add to that, because it wasn't all rainbows and butterflies. The most negative comments I have received have been from my family. They're like, you don't have enough. Or a boyfriend. You don't have enough time for that. When I wanted to add my next idea to my list of my entrepreneurial things that I do, you don't have enough time. Wow. Those were negative comments on your instagram reel. Oh, well, that only went viral because of x. Because you look, whatever their excuse was, they did try to hold me back, but I think it was touching on what Joe said. They didn't have the balls made to take the risk. They're like, be safe. Stick to that nine to five job.
You have all these perks. What are you doing? And I do think it comes from a place of caring. But I will say, I watch who I get advice from, and I have a specific group of people. I don't tell everybody everything and seek advice from people I know. We're going to reign on my parade in a way that's going to squash my vision. I want to get to those people that can help me grow it, give me the ideas, inspire me, help me grow it, and then I can obviously have reality checks with the people that are going to be a little more negative or realistic when I need it. But I do think innately, and entrepreneurs are very unrealistic. Our visions are unrealistic, and people don't understand them. To your point, they're just thinking you're crazy. Wow, another idea you have. Exactly. It's very true.
[00:20:17] Speaker B: So then there's that second level trap, and that's success. Right. And Joe and I have experienced this over the last 20 years, is that if you are fortunate enough to have the fruits of your labor bear success now, who can you truly share that success with? I think the number of people on this planet that each successful entrepreneur or salesperson has that they can truly share in the joy of their success. I think that number is pretty small. I think that there's not many for the reasons of, like you said, now you want to share the success, but then do they really want to hear it? How many people can you tell how much you made last year? If you're proud of how much you made last year? It's not many.
[00:21:00] Speaker C: My parents and maybe one friend that won't be competitive. Right. And I think when people tell me how much they're making or how much they want to make, I get excited. So I do think it's the different in personalities that's amazing. I don't compare myself to someone who's making millions. I just have my blinders on. I know what I want. I know how to get there. I'm making the steps. But I in no way compete or compare or tear them down out of jealousy or whatever reason that people feel when they can't handle that. And plus, people are just weird about money. But at the end of the day, if more people talked about salary or how much they made in business and celebrated that, people would probably go a lot farther.
[00:21:44] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:21:46] Speaker A: You'Re not having w two contests with your buddy like a certain guy I know that's on this podcast?
[00:21:53] Speaker C: Yeah, I did hear that story.
[00:21:56] Speaker A: Wait until we realized. Until I realized I don't want my wt to be that high. I need to chase this up.
[00:22:07] Speaker B: No, this is not a platform for tax evasion advice. All right, let's just kill it there.
It's a great parlay, Lindsay, to wrap up the one conversation, have your people. Have your people that you can check in with for that criticism, but make sure those people are 100% committed and excited about your success. And it does take time to vet those people out, but bring them into your. Once you have that person that gets truly fired up every time you do something great, those are the people you want in your life, and those are people you want honest feedback from. Because sometimes maybe they're just blowing smoke. Right? But you don't want them blowing smoke. You want somebody that's going to absolutely love what you're doing and at the same time, willing to be honest with you. And there's few people out there that are like that. I'm very fortunate to have someone like Joe and my brothers that I can be open with. And Joe will never waste an opportunity to tell me what I'm not seeing either, which is good. But let's parlay that into the next part of your services, because money isn't everything when you're helping someone build their resume, when you're helping someone with their career coaching, talk to me about where money falls in line of priority. And do you actually help people reprioritize what their goals are for their career so that they see that?
[00:23:27] Speaker C: Yeah, I think that money can be a big thing if you have family. We all have. People have debt, college debt, whatever the case may be. But you can make as much money as you want and you might burn out. You hate the environment you work in, and it's just not worth it. So try to find that full package. So what I try to start with is, and what will make people successful and make that money is if they start in a place that they're skilled in. So let's get you a job where you have the skills, whether it's in some software or maybe you have great people skills, customer service. Let's go into sales. What are you interested in? A lot of people love to work out at Peloton. Right. Let's go get you a job working at Peloton. You're also an accountant. Let's get you a job as an accountant at Peloton. You will last a very long time because you'll be extremely passionate about the brand, about the company you work for. You'll work your way up, and that's where the money always does come. And I find that any situation that I'm successful in, it's because I'm very passionate about what I'm doing. And there's way too many people, whether they make a lot of money or not a lot of money, that are doing jobs that they are not passionate about.
And I think that sucks the life out of people day and day. Because you're working a job 40 hours plus a week. How could that not suck the life out of you at home and your relationships in the day to day? You don't feel like going to the gym now because you just don't enjoy what you're doing. And I know this because I've been there and I thought it was me, but it wasn't my personality. It was just my job bringing me down. And that was when I graduated college. And I didn't have the job I wanted. Right. So I do think that it's a factor, and I never want to discount that because I always want to help people make as much money as they can. But if you're not happy doing what you're doing, then it's just not going to be fun, and you need to have fun doing what you're doing.
[00:25:18] Speaker B: We are salespeople.
Self promotion certainly comes easier to salespeople than other folks. A lot of times, people don't want to brag about themselves, and it holds them back.
[00:25:32] Speaker A: Right.
[00:25:32] Speaker B: In the resume building process, in the recruiting process, what do you find? What are the characteristics of your ideal client? Is it someone who truly is special but just has no way to communicate how special they can be to an organization?
[00:25:48] Speaker C: My favorite clients to work with are the people where they send me their resume. We do our consultation call, and I'm asking them questions, and they're uncovering the success and the achievements they had. They had no idea that getting an award was a big deal or that saving the money 20% was a big deal. I'm like, that matters. And by the end of the call, they're like, wow, I've done a lot. I'm very qualified for the jobs I've been reaching for. Let me reach for a job I'm maybe a little less qualified for. And they actually change their way. They think about themselves. Their confidence increases because it's harder to work with someone that thinks they know it all. And sometimes salespeople, they're like, I'm great at talking, so I'm great at interviews. I'm great at selling things I can sell myself. I'm like, sometimes they need the most coaching. So I love the people that are willing to admit that they need help and they're willing to get better and know where their weaknesses are and know where their strengths are. I cannot tell you how many people I have coached in interview prep, and I don't judge. But at the beginning, they're like, I'm really good at this. I'm just brushing off the cobwebs, and we can't get through the first question.
So it says a lot about our own self evaluation to be how well can we self reflect and know how good we are at certain skills and where we actually do need help? So I'd say those are my favorite clients, the ones that definitely need the help.
[00:27:11] Speaker B: Joe, do you remember yellow book?
And I don't know if Pat listens to the show, but first person that came to mind Lindsay, when you were talking, is a friend of ours that we worked with at one time when we all started at the company at the same time, and he was your perfect example. He's like, I'm just here to do what I do best, schmooth.
The guy was clueless.
Great interpersonal conversation, sure. But when it came to selling, he was absolutely clueless.
[00:27:50] Speaker C: Well, how do you do? I'm just curious because sometimes people that can just sell themselves and they don't know anything about tech or what they're actually selling are actually the best salespeople because they're just selling themselves.
[00:28:02] Speaker A: I'll put it diplomatically, and I think that that particular job required a very specific skill set to make you successful. That very small amount, percentage of people had, and I can't recall if he fit into that category or not because.
[00:28:23] Speaker B: He was not a problem solver. I mean, I think that's what sales really is, is you build relationships so that you can find and listen for opportunities to solve problems for your customers and customers, your friends, family, coworkers. He just wanted to smooth, right?
[00:28:41] Speaker C: That's where you bring the value.
[00:28:43] Speaker A: The biggest thing I think successful salespeople have is the exact opposite of that mentality. The better listener you are, the better salesperson you are. And it's so counterintuitive. But the less you say, the more you sell. And that's like the bottom line takes a while because most a personalities and they just want to look at me and all this, and if you take a step back and you're like, all right, I'm going to use this kind of Jedi mind trick and not talk and let the person talk and wait for opportunities to hear where I can just interject and sort of guide their talking into the way that I see things. And that's the point.
[00:29:35] Speaker C: And I think the sales, like, whether you're doing sales or you're in interviews, right? Whether you're selling a product or you're selling yourself an interview, that is the most important part is listening and letting people talk, because people's most favorite topic is themselves.
So if you let them talk about themselves, at the end of that sales pitch, they're going to be like, I love that guy, Joe Ken's great. Lindsay's awesome. And it's not because of what you said. It's because you let them talk. Or maybe you're now their therapist, because you let them rant about something going on in their life that no one else would let them do because they're so worried about their agenda as a salesperson, that they don't take the time to let them talk. And that's the biggest myth right there is just shutting up, letting people talk.
[00:30:19] Speaker B: Yeah. Ask the Right.
[00:30:21] Speaker A: From my full disclosure, I think that I've only been on one interview and it was yellow book 24 years ago. That's, like, really legit. The only time I've ever interviewed for a job. However, what I've noticed and hearing you say this as well is like, we interview with people all the time. We're constantly interviewing. And part of your technique or method with these people is it essentially just letting the interviewer tell you exactly who they're looking for and then just kind of chameleoning into that, like, oh, well, you said this. I'm like that.
Is it more of a discovery process for the interviewee to figure out, to get the interviewer to give them gems of like, hey, this is who we're looking for. This is the type of person. And then just kind of mirroring that.
[00:31:14] Speaker C: I think it's both because people always think I'm an interview and I'm getting interrogated. They ask the question, but it's actually a conversation just like we're having now. And if you make it a conversation that they're going to like you already because it doesn't really matter if you match exactly what they're looking for, you could lack in something. But at the end of the interview, they say, I really like that guy Joe. He made me feel good. I just like him. I want to work with him. It's a likability game. That's all it is. And so regardless of are they looking for someone with certain skills, if you're coachable, you're trainable, they like you. That could help you probably beat out the guy with the NBA. And I feel like you guys might be able to speak to this because at the end of the day, you just want to hire someone that's going to make your life easier as managers. So if you almost hired someone that was less qualified than the other guy just because you liked them, you knew you could coach them and turn them into whoever you wanted them to be.
[00:32:11] Speaker A: So I've done quite a bit of interviewing and hiring and so forth, and one of the things that it's hard to learn this, but then it makes so much sense when you look back. This is a 100% credo at this point. And I tell everyone that if you look for good people, look for qualities and characteristics of someone who's empathetic and altruistic and truly a good person and how they treat their family and how people, you can train a good person.
Any skill that you're trying to hire, you can't train someone who's skilled to be a good person. So that's really, ultimately, I feel like all of these job skills and all of that, it starts with being a good person in the beginning, and then you can learn anything else. And from an employer standpoint, from a hiring standpoint, that's one of the things that we drive into. Everybody who's in an interviewer looking to hire someone, I don't care what they know. We can train them, but if they're not a good person, we can't get them to be a good person.
[00:33:24] Speaker C: Yeah, and I think that's number one. And people forget that. They're like, I need to show them I have customer service skills and I have this software skill. No. Number one is getting them to like you and trust you. Number two is showing examples to fill those gaps that you know they need because it's on the job posting. They tell you the job requirements so you know where to focus on your stories you're going to share. But number one is walking in the door with confidence, shaking their hand, asking them what they're excited about for the weekend, getting them talking about themselves and then jumping into it. But whether you're selling a product or you're selling yourself in an interview, you have to take a moment to take a step back to build that relationship. Because once you don't do that, you can't go back. You can't, at the end of the interview be like, oh, how's your kit? You can't go back. Same thing.
[00:34:08] Speaker B: There are some things you can't go back.
[00:34:10] Speaker C: A year in. You can't. A year in, you can't be like, what was your dog's name? You got to ask those questions in the beginning and write them down.
[00:34:16] Speaker B: And remember, write them down.
[00:34:18] Speaker A: So have you heard of the theory? So I've actually had a couple of people share this with me in their interview process, and they say that they're looking to hire someone and they say, all right, meet me at XYZ coffee shop or whatever. And they get there early and they watch how they come in and then they order and they watch how they treat the waitress and all of these little things. And then there's a couple of other tips, tricks. I won't kind of throw them out there and ruin it, but there's definitely like a series of things where you can really get a good read on who a person is by how they interact in these certain situations.
So I'll give a little trick. One pretty successful guy I know, he'll go to the same place to have these interviews, and he will tell the waiter or waitress to purposely screw up the person's order and then see how they handle it. Interesting. Yeah.
When we're talking high level or high stress positions that are being filled, what you see on a resume, that's their best. They're going to come and give you the best. So with these curveballs. So to the interviewee, understand that the interview starts before you even meet the person. And maybe they have a parking lot. See if you park close or far in a know or park crooked and open.
[00:35:52] Speaker C: A lot.
[00:35:52] Speaker B: Lindsay, do you think hiring managers are doing this?
[00:35:56] Speaker C: They. Some are playing games, but I will say the interviews are like, my business is kind of like dating in a way. So when you go on a date with someone, most people are thinking, do they like me? That's your natural insecure self coming out. But the real question is, do I like them? Do I like that hiring manager? That's what they should be asking themselves. And same thing. When you go to this restaurant, you're meeting someone for dinner. How do they treat the server? Do they tip? How are they people that aren't me and these interviewers are doing the same thing to these candidates, the same thing as people do in dates. How well do they tip? How do they treat the server? Are they a jerk when they mess up the order? So it's almost parlaying it in the same way. So I'm not surprised. It's just because there's so many parallels there to me with dating and business that they would do that.
[00:36:48] Speaker B: I wish I knew you 20 years ago, Lindsay. So one of my first job interviews was with enterprise rental card. I'll never forget this interview because you talk about being prepared for the interview. Being prepared for the interview is everything from not only researching the company and I'm sure you have some advice on that, but making sure your suit's dry cleaned, making sure you know where you're literally, I checked off every box. What not to do in that interview. My suit was in a dry cleaner. My brother Pat literally almost walked behind the counter and opened the machine to get my suit out because he knew I needed it for a job interview.
And that's props to my brother Pat. But I ended up having to wear my stepdad's suit to this interview. It was a little snug right? And I was ten minutes late, and I showed up. Now, you're going to love this. The hiring manager was obviously expecting. She was every bit of eight to ten months pregnant. And I said, pregnant?
She goes, that's none of your business. And I literally, like, we could do this interview if you want, or you could just let me leave.
[00:38:01] Speaker C: It's up to you.
So that is so interesting. And I don't know if you remember a detail like this, but when you walked in and you were late, did you say, sorry, I'm late? Or did you say, thanks for your patience? Or were you like, hey, you're pregnant?
[00:38:14] Speaker B: Did you not even ask, sorry, I'm late?
[00:38:19] Speaker A: That makes two of us.
[00:38:20] Speaker B: There was no ninja trick. I was going to try to get me out of that mess. It was just an absolute mess, because.
[00:38:27] Speaker C: That'S the big thing. It's like, instead of whether you email someone late or you're late, don't say sorry. And I know that's etiquette. We've always were taught to say sorry, but saying, thank you for your patience, it changes the tone. And I feel like that to me when I was 22, God forbid there's a 22 year old listening to this. I didn't know that. You didn't know that. You probably walked in, you're pregnant, you're nervous, right? But that'll actually disarm people a lot more as well. And acknowledging, hey, I'm late. So if somebody out there listening is whether it's Phil is late to something. Yeah, I think that would be great advice. So you're pregnant.
What not to do in an interview. I'm adding that to my list that I don't.
[00:39:08] Speaker B: I think the guys in step brothers had better interviews than I did.
Let's talk about. Let's talk about something a little more technical. Let's talk about the resume.
Is it true that the resume.
That hiring managers. There's trends in resume writing and resume building, that your resume could look outdated without even reading the first word? Is that true? I mean, how important is the formatting and the way you build your resume? And what is an old resume?
[00:39:45] Speaker C: So my biggest indicator for an old resume is someone that says, references available upon request. I'm like, was this built 15 years ago? I mean, if you know when you're up to date, you'll know not to put that on there. Also, writing your full address. No one needs that information unless you've gotten the job. City and state will do the trick. Hyperlinking your email and hyperlinking your LinkedIn. I can tell that people aren't as tech savvy or that they're not into LinkedIn or they're not adding their LinkedIn. And the reason that's important is if I see a face on a resume and your actual headshot on your resume, that's not where that goes. That also tells me your resume is old. Where it goes is on LinkedIn. That's what that's for. So they can see your face, put a face to the name, learn more about you. Because your resume is like your highlight reel and then your LinkedIn is all of the information and more details. So if you don't have that hyperlinked, how are they going to know? So those are really big indicators that tell me your resume is a little old. Also, if it's over two pages, I don't know if that's what people did back then, but that is not what we do now. Two pages max. I just saw a seven page resume the other day and he wasn't 80 years old. It was just a lot of information and not a good use of white space. So nowadays everyone uses white space very well. And times. New Romans. Acceptable. Cambria. But you want to keep it clean. Black and white or dark blue and black. No crazy colors. No, nothing like that.
[00:41:17] Speaker B: Pink resume to stand out for the.
[00:41:18] Speaker C: No Barbie, unless you're applying to Barbie World. I don't suggest a pink resume.
[00:41:27] Speaker B: When you're prepping people and you get them the job and they love it and it's a Fortune 500 company and now it's level two. Now it's like, hey, Lindsey, I like my job, but where do I go from here?
What kind of people come back to you later for that? How do I ask for a raise? How do I look for that promotion? And what kind of services do you lend there?
[00:41:48] Speaker C: So I feel like it always starts with the groundwork. So it's the perfect time in the beginning of the year, right? It's 2024, and we all have goals by the end of the year. The biggest thing if you want to get to that next level, say, for example, a client got a job last year, they want to get to that next level. I always ask them, have you networked within your company? Have you networked with managers, set up one on one? How have you helped other managers? Do people know your name that's outside of just your general team that's going to help you get to that next level? Then the other thing is having that conversation with your manager in the beginning of the year. Saying, hey, I want an x amount more money. I want this raise. I want this bonus. I want to hit quota. I want platinum performer. What do I need to do to get there? And they're going to tell you what to do, and you need to check off everything on that list and more to get that. And that's how you get to the next level. It's not just your numbers. A lot of the times, it's who you know, how well you've networked, how well they want to see you grow. And also having a skill that no one else really has. Maybe it's a software skill that'll also get you a lot more money because they need you. So just be needed. That will make you a lot more money the second that you're not of value. Or they think, I can let that guy go, he's kind of lazy anyway.
You probably won't get what you want. And when you don't get what you want, have the honest conversation. And if you've truly done everything you need to do, and you're capped out because there's no way to. No growth at that company, let's move on. But if there's growth at a company, I say, water the grass where it's to get it greener where you are. Don't just jump ship. So I do have a lot of those conversations, and a lot of people hate asking for more money. I think there's a stigma around money. It's uncomfortable. But I promise you, you will not get anything if you don't ask, because a closed mouth does not get fed. So you have to ask. And if they say no, that's the worst thing they can say. And I've been told no. I've been told I wasn't worth $40,000 when I graduated college. And you know what I said, I'll go find someone who thinks I'm worth more. And I did. And that got me $30,000 more just like that. Just by leaving and finding someone that knew my value and knew what I could bring to the table, and they knew my value. They just didn't feel like paying me, and they didn't have the money or whatever their excuse, or they were trying to hold me back because they knew I was good. So you just move on. You know your value, and if it's not right where you are, then go find someone that thinks you're worth it.
[00:44:20] Speaker B: Here's a question, and, Joe, you could probably. This is more like just human nature advice here, but for someone in their first or second job, who thinks they're being held down by their manager? Because I think that happens a lot.
[00:44:38] Speaker A: That was going to be my question. I'm glad you're touching on this.
[00:44:42] Speaker B: So, guys, ask it in your way, and let's talk about it.
[00:44:48] Speaker A: As you're describing this, I am so glad that I'm not in the corporate world or any of that, because it just is like, oh, man, that would drive me nuts. But this is what led me to this thought.
I think the number one reason why people leave a company, they attribute it to their direct manager. So I don't know if that's accurate or not, but let's just assume that it is. Right? How do you deal? How does someone who's looking for career enrichment, let's say, circumvent a bad manager? Who's holding them down? Or if they're the one that's making the decision to give them more money or whatever, how does one navigate that situation?
In your eyes, is that kind of what you mean, KJ?
[00:45:38] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
[00:45:39] Speaker C: So how do you handle a bad manager, right. That's holding you back, not giving you what you need? I'd say try to find other people that have your back within the company, whether it's the person above them, set up one on ones with them, maybe they'll have your back. But having a manager that's not supportive, not helping you grow, that's their job. That, to me, I wouldn't want to work for that. And people don't quit companies. Usually they quit managers that don't value them, don't show great culture, don't build it. And I feel like I've been very fortunate having managers that help me grow. But the last company I worked for, when I graduated college, I did have a bad manager. Like, a bad. And would just in every way, and I left. And I did have one person in that company that advocated for me, believed in me, and he wrote my letter of recommendation. He helped me grow. He taught me everything I knew. But once I knew I was capped out there, he couldn't teach me anymore. There's no room for growth. There's no more money coming. I left.
And that's what you need to do. Or switch division, try to switch around. But I would either go up above them, go see other manager, because they can also help make the decision, or just get out, because a bad manager is going to have enough people quit, and then the director is going to go looking at that manager being like, okay, it must be you. These people were great. Employees.
[00:46:58] Speaker B: Let me put a spin on that. As an entrepreneur, as a business owner, oftentimes we get a little bit, I don't want to use the word possessive, but you get this one role player or rock star on your team that's really good at a thing that you need them to do, but it's not really fair to you to keep them in that position if they are looking to grow. And how does an entrepreneur or a business owner avoid that blind spot of inadvertently keeping someone down just because of the value that they serve day to day to that hiring manager or to.
[00:47:34] Speaker C: That business owner and being someone that wants to grow and having managers that have helped me grow even when they wanted to keep me. Put yourself in that boy shoes, would you want someone holding you back? And is that fair? Is that ethical? Your job as a manager or owner of having people under you is to help them grow. Maybe you could get them a promotion to keep them and then have someone fill their space, hire someone else, train them to do their job and then promote them. But don't hold them down, because when people are held down long enough or told they're not worth something, they start to believe it. And you don't want to be that person that does that because they'll never forget you. And you could do all the things in the world for them, but they're never going to forget you once they're out of your lock that you did that. So I would try to build other places for them where they can grow and have people under them. If you really think they're that great.
[00:48:32] Speaker A: You give them equity.
[00:48:34] Speaker B: Make a give them, Joe, that's your answer to everything. Throw money at it, right?
[00:48:39] Speaker A: No, it's not money. No, I'm glad you said that because not money. It's not money, it's ownership. You give them ownership because are truly an entrepreneur and you are a hustler, then you know that this is just one silo of business or revenue. And if you have somebody that's that good, then you can bring them in, have them ownership of this, and this is going to grow, and you can go on to the next thing. And now, you know, I got this checked. We're partners now. You're not an employee anymore. You're a partner.
[00:49:10] Speaker B: You're a piece of it.
[00:49:12] Speaker A: Let's see then. Go grow another one. Find another rock star, have them build. So this is how you grow these businesses and what that has to do with from an entrepreneur standpoint and so forth and why everybody says I have my hands in so many different pies or whatever, it's because you have to hedge. Like some years, some businesses are not going to do well and through no fault of your. So you can't. If you put all your eggs in one basket and you're a really good example of this, too. Lindsay is like, if you just have one job, if you lose your job, you're screwed, right? If you just have one business, that business has a bad year. You're not making any money. So it's like smart investing anywhere. You need to have a diversified fund of businesses. And if you can find identify someone in one of those businesses that is a rock star and a great employee, and you bring them up and you make them a part of that or more of an owner in the company, other people are going to see that when you go to open other businesses and ventures, you can use them as the example for all of the other employees that you've brought in. And if we go back to the original point of good people who you know aren't going to screw you, and they're not just good at what they do, but they're actually good people, then you have a whole army of these amazing partners in your businesses that just explode and then you can leverage them off each other.
I think a good piece, and what Lindsay brings telling us about, too, is it's people. People are the most important thing in all of these businesses. And if you have good people and you treat them right and you give them ownership, and it's not about money, it's about lifestyle. It's about enjoying what you do and having them enjoy what you do and be more cooperative, your business is going to grow. As an employee, you're going to be fulfilled. As a business owner, you're going to be more profitable. And I think for me that's the secret. But I don't know.
[00:51:18] Speaker C: I agree. And people are your best investment. And I know it's easy to say harder because when you come down to your bottom line, like you can only afford to pay people so much. But I see a lot of companies laying people off or treating them like they're disposable, and that's not right. Because if you invest in your people and you keep them happy, I promise your business is going to go up. Because the second they're unhappy, it's going to start showing in their ability to be productive, their motivation, the way they act, the way they talk. So you need to keep them happy. And you have to figure out as a manager or as an employer, what makes people tick. Some people, it's money. Some people, it's telling them how great they are. Some people, it's awards. Some people it's giving them more responsibility. You have to figure out what makes people tick. And until you know that, you can't really make your employees happy because everybody's so different and their goals are different. Even me. Maybe five years ago, money wasn't necessarily like my biggest. I just was happy to be there, happy to be making more than the last company paid me. And now I'm at the point where I'm like, pay me what I know I'm worth and I'm realistic about this, or give me equity, or the money is starting to become a factor because guess what?
Inflation is real. The cost of things is real. I want to invest more. There's a lot on the table. People have a lot higher debt ratios now, so money has become a factor. But you just have to figure out people's motivations are because they can change. The second they have a baby, the second they buy a house and they have a mortgage, you just have to constantly check in with people.
[00:52:48] Speaker B: This is probably one of the most dynamic conversations we've had on this show. I think, Joe, you would probably agree, because whether you're looking for your first job, looking for a promotion, whether an entrepreneur trying to learn what you should be doing in the hiring process, how to help people grow, there's so many facets of the business world that will benefit from this conversation if they ever just listen to it, that this was awesome. Lindsay, I really appreciate you coming on and sharing us your perspective because I think you're coming from so many different directions and you're bringing a ton of knowledge and value from those directions. And Joe, I was glad that we were able to tap into some of your knowledge today, too. Normally you just sit there and don't say anything.
[00:53:31] Speaker A: I listen, but I have a new outlook on 2024 is going to be out there more. I'm going to share. I like to keep things close to the chest and I've made some changes. I'm going to start sharing a little bit more about myself and kind of what's know.
[00:53:53] Speaker C: When you think about building the brand, it helps.
[00:53:56] Speaker B: It's time for two truths and a lie. So repeat the three items. One is you have been to Australia, one is you own a rental property, and the other is that you have two older siblings. So Joe, what clues did you pick up over the course of this conversation to indicate which one you think is the.
[00:54:21] Speaker A: I?
This is a tough one, because I think there was some purposeful deception in a little bit of the recanting of some stories here. So originally, I felt that you don't have two older sisters. I think you have one sister. And then I think you caught yourself and said sisters at one point to throw us all off. So I'm going to go with, I don't think you have two sisters. I think you have one sister.
[00:54:57] Speaker C: Okay, so my truth. I have two older sisters. And those were actually the sisters that forced me to even start a whole separate Instagram page to promote myself to people that don't know me because they got so annoyed with my Instagram stories on my personal page, with the resume business, they're like, you're annoying me. And said, okay, maybe I'm annoying other people, too, but a lot of people seem to like it. So anyway, I was like, let me reach people I don't know. So that's when I started the Instagram page. So we can thank them for that later. Although I didn't appreciate their negativity at this time, I do own a rental property. I love real estate. I have two properties right now. And to your point, I do not put all my eggs in one basket. And my employers know this about me. My managers do. I have, like, seven lines of income, all separate businesses, all different things going on at all times, because you just never know when you're going to get laid off or a business is going to start sucking. And the lie is, I have not been to Australia. I want to go. I love to travel. It's just really far from Delaware.
[00:55:57] Speaker B: If you remember in the pre conversation we were chatting, you had mentioned being in Italy and eating foods and how different it is here in the United States. So I would have swore that you had been to Australia on that. So well done, Lindsay. On Joe, that was pretty good. That was pretty.
[00:56:20] Speaker A: Was. That got me.
[00:56:23] Speaker C: I love it.
You overthought what I was saying, and I'm not that strategic at all. If you knew that about me, you would know. I just speak whatever's on my mind.
[00:56:35] Speaker B: I remember that part of the conversation, too, Joe, and it stuck out at me. I'm like, but I didn't, sister.
[00:56:40] Speaker A: And then she said, I was like, I see what you did there.
[00:56:45] Speaker B: But, Lindsay, let's wrap up. Where can people find you?
[00:56:50] Speaker C: So I am on Instagram at limitless with Lynn or on my website, limitlesswithlins.com. And those are probably the two best places to find me.
[00:57:03] Speaker B: Well, we hope that this was time. Well, spent on your part. It was definitely big value to us, and we love to have great guests. That's really all we're looking for is fun guests and the service and the knowledge and the information that we share is secondary to the fun that we have on the show. And I'm really happy that you came on. I hope you enjoyed it, and hopefully you'll come on again anytime.
[00:57:24] Speaker C: I really enjoy this. I feel like I'm just shooting the shit, and that's what I love. If I had to start a podcast, it would be just like this environment. You're just having a conversation. It's fun. And I got to say, I've been looking forward to this all week, and I'm just so happy that I finally got to hang out with you guys, see what the podcast was all about, and share some insight that we all have with whoever's going to listen. Thank you, Phil.
[00:57:47] Speaker A: That's it.
[00:57:48] Speaker B: Big shout out to Phil. And remember, if they're pregnant or not, just don't say anything. That's the takeaway.
[00:57:56] Speaker C: That's the takeaway. That is the takeaway. I'm putting that in my do not part of my do not list. How about it?
[00:58:02] Speaker B: That story is now yours to tell, Lindsay.
[00:58:05] Speaker C: That's a good one. I'm feeling it.
[00:58:07] Speaker B: All right, guys, thank you guys very much. Joe will catch up with you soon. Lindsay will catch up with you soon. And, yeah, until then, looking forward to it.
[00:58:15] Speaker C: Have a great weekend.
[00:58:17] Speaker A: Thanks for listening to selling the dream. We know you don't want to miss a single episode, so go subscribe today, wherever you get your podcasts, and then make sure to share the show with your friends and leave us a review.
