Ep. 17 Talking with John Duffin

[00:00:09] Speaker A: You're listening to selling the dream. [00:00:11] Speaker B: This isn't an interview, and we're not journalists. [00:00:14] Speaker A: But each week, we'll ask our guests. [00:00:16] Speaker B: To open up and share their secrets to business success. [00:00:18] Speaker A: Let's have a conversation and have some fun. [00:00:24] Speaker C: As always, always. My co host on the west coast, Joe Ardell. Joe, what's going on? [00:00:31] Speaker B: What's up, KJ? Another week, man. Another opportunity to kick some ass today. [00:00:39] Speaker C: Yeah, that's it, man. I love. So you're joking. I'm wearing this Philly shirt, and Joe joked and said, this shirt is big enough. We probably could have fit the whole word. Just thought it's funny. It's good that I can laugh at myself, Joe, to be honest. But I will have you know I am down 16 pounds from October 1, so I'm going in the right direction. [00:01:04] Speaker B: You're looking good, bro. You're looking good, man. How's the booze? And, bro, how's the beers? [00:01:14] Speaker C: Completely cut out. Watching my calories. [00:01:17] Speaker B: Is that right? [00:01:17] Speaker C: Getting up early, is that right? Yeah, man. You got witness, not 430 early. Listen, I'm getting up at 515. I have a group of people within Princeton mortgage that I get together with on Mondays and Wednesdays at 05:55 a.m. On Mondays, we get together and we talk about our goals. On Wednesdays, we get together, and we talk about a book that we're all reading right now. We're reading a go giver right here. [00:01:43] Speaker B: All right. [00:01:44] Speaker C: It's been helpful, man. Just an accountability group. They get up early, everybody gets on Zoom, bedhead and all, and it's been kind of cool. We've been doing it for the last couple of months. [00:01:55] Speaker B: I like it, man. I like it. Good stuff, dude. The key that I found for me, and this maybe doesn't work for everybody, but I started doing difficult things, and then when those difficult things become routine, then I add another layer of difficulty to what I've been doing. And then ultimately, you start to feel normalized or comfortable with doing these tough things, like getting up at 430 in the morning is nothing. Now, that's when I wake up. And then you add things to it, and next thing you know, you're just like, holy crap. [00:02:33] Speaker C: Did I just see you drinking a milkshake, though? [00:02:35] Speaker B: No, actually, you know what? [00:02:38] Speaker C: Funny you should say that, because I. [00:02:40] Speaker B: Have three things that I do every single day, all right? This isn't a milkshake. It's protein. I was told I need to get more protein in my diet, so that's the best way to do it. But three things I do every single day is sauna. I do the sauna or the hot tub every day, no matter what, 20 minutes minimum. I take a nap every single day and I eat an ICE cream cone or ICE cream every single day. And if I do those three things, my day is complete. I feel great. If nothing else, I get those three things in. I've had a completed day. [00:03:17] Speaker C: There's a lot in common with a. [00:03:18] Speaker B: Four year old life. Simple, dude. Four year olds don't have a whole lot of stuff to worry about. When you keep it simple, you keep it easy, it keep it moving. [00:03:31] Speaker C: I think being married to Laura is a big plus there, enabling you to take naps in the middle of the day. While she takes a lot off my. [00:03:39] Speaker B: Plate, I will definitely give a lot of the credit to her for sure. [00:03:46] Speaker C: You got a lot in common with a four year old. And being married to Laura is the secret to being able to take naps. Is that kind of what our people should be taking? [00:03:53] Speaker B: That's pretty much. And also too with the I've conditioned the kids, that shit runs downhill. So very, very tough on the oldest and if anything goes wrong, he's accountable. [00:04:08] Speaker C: He'S going to hear about it. Yeah. [00:04:10] Speaker B: And it's just kind of like. So they all kind of keep each other accountable, which is good. Frees me up a lot of time to do the fun stuff I like to do and keep it moving. [00:04:22] Speaker C: I love it, man. So real quick, big waves in California, man. What's going on there? Yeah, is it weird? Like I'm seeing this stuff all over social media, like peers are getting knocked down. Is it that bad? [00:04:36] Speaker B: It's not bad. It's great. Dude. I surfed, me and AJ, who's twelve year old phenom son of mine, we surfed like 8 hours a day for like three days straight. So every so often, every couple of times a winter, we get blessed with these massive swells that come out from the North Pacific or wherever and the surf gets huge. But if you're a surfer it's awesome. If you're a pier, it's not if you're beach. But yeah, man, it's great if you know what you're doing. It's fun. [00:05:22] Speaker C: Wild, man. Anyway, let's bring on our guest for today. We have an awesome guest today. Super energetic, been around the block. Seems like he's got his hands on a million things. We're going to welcome John Duffin from Duffin Media. John, thanks for joining me and Joe today. Coming in, hanging out and having a conversation. [00:05:43] Speaker A: I'm delighted to be here and I'm laughing at the bin around the block part. I don't know what that's code for, but that's typically not never good. But anyway, regardless, I'm still really glad to be here. Thanks for having me, guys. [00:05:58] Speaker C: You bet. John, tell us a little bit about your business. It seems pretty multifaceted, but tell the people that are listening kind of some of the things that you're into. [00:06:06] Speaker A: Absolutely. So it heads in literally one central direction, which is communications based, and the second direction is voice related. So it typically goes in two ways, which is number one, I do voiceover work, voice narration work, I host a podcast, so I get to throw my voice around a lot, which is fun for me. And then also I coach people, how to speak, present and lead better. And I'll say from the coaching platform, the business, that business platform, optimizing your communications by leveraging your voice, which enables you to sound more true, more authentic and convincing is never a word I want to throw around. But if you want to stay in the corporate game, you want to deliver a real estate listing with some degree, not just integrity, but believability. You've got to sound like you know your way around a big money business situation. So it goes in two ways, which is utilizing my voice to convey a corporate message or helping organizations galvanize their sales teams or their leadership teams to be able to speak and present better to their stakeholders and to their clients. So one way or other, it's coming from someone's voice, whether mine or I'm teaching others to use theirs. [00:07:34] Speaker C: Well, I will tell you that. You're absolutely got those velvety pipes, man. You're making nuts. [00:07:40] Speaker A: Thank you, man. [00:07:41] Speaker C: Sound like a bunch of static. You sound great. Tell me, I guess, are you real estate centric? Is most of your business kind of directed towards real estate professionals? [00:07:55] Speaker A: Some, absolutely. So I am a licensed real estate agent. I have trained some of the public speaking that I've done has centered around real estate events, real producers in Philadelphia and Bucks county. So I've been the host MC of a couple of different events. So the fact is, absolutely, yes. And then the other, when I talk about communications, my background is a lengthy career. That's why I'm laughing about the been around the block broadcast ad sales and executive sales management for over 25 years. Those would be the two major sweet spots in terms of. So whether it is digital, broadcast, streaming, advertising, sales and sales management, and then also real estate as well too in regards to coaching, and speaking. [00:08:50] Speaker C: Fantastic. Tell me about how, take me back 2025 years ago. Are you in ad sales? Are you in corporate America? Tell me about that. [00:08:59] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah. So I've been privileged and really grateful to say that I've worked with some of the largest media organizations in the United States and went from beginning with a small independent television station in Philadelphia, which isn't even around anymore. What was the station, what was WGTwTV 48 was relaunched. There you go. There you go. So it was relaunched in the, that's when I began. And so it was small and we scrapped for every nickel as it first began. And then from there, I worked with the Tribune organization, I worked with Univision Communications, with greater media radio, which is now Beasley Communications. So I've worked with those for the majority on the television digital streaming side. And then, yeah, it was like finding my way and flailing around some in the beginning and then being grateful that I was able to navigate some degree of success and then went from salesperson to sales management and up the chains in regards to corporate and executive leadership in that regard, but always with some sort of a foundation of sales. Always. And communications. [00:10:25] Speaker C: All right, I'm going to come back to that because I want to talk about that transition from corporate sales to entrepreneurship. But before we get too far along, before we get too far along, one of my favorite games to play is two truths and a lie. You came prepared. So, John, why don't you share with us? Joe's going to be listening and he's going to be listening for clues throughout this entire conversation. He's pretty good, but he's not perfect. You can stump it. [00:10:51] Speaker B: It was. [00:10:54] Speaker C: I'm already impressed with. [00:10:59] Speaker B: Channel 48. Remember that? It was between. There were 17. [00:11:03] Speaker A: Wouldn't that be awful? If that was one of the lies? [00:11:05] Speaker B: There was 1729. And 48. And 48 would have, like, reruns of, like, Hogan heroes and Gilligan's island and all that back in the day in. [00:11:14] Speaker A: The, then we're in the right place. We're in the right place. [00:11:20] Speaker C: I remember when Philly 57 started. That was big. We got a new station. Whole new station. [00:11:26] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:11:26] Speaker C: Matt Cotter and the whole bit. [00:11:28] Speaker A: Anyway, you're making me happy. You're making me happy by sharing all of that. [00:11:35] Speaker C: Give me two truths and a lie. Give me three facts. [00:11:37] Speaker A: Okay. So I'm grateful to say that during that stretch of my career that I either directly or led my teams to generate in excess of $200 million in ad sales. [00:11:58] Speaker B: Okay. [00:11:59] Speaker A: I have run six marathons. [00:12:04] Speaker B: Okay. [00:12:05] Speaker A: And my favorite color is green. [00:12:16] Speaker C: All right, so we got generated 200 million in ad sales, ran six marathons. Favorite color is green. All right, Joe, we'll see. [00:12:24] Speaker B: Got it. [00:12:24] Speaker C: See what we can come up with here. All right, so let's get back to the conversation. So you're really crushing it in corporate America, right? Pioneering new TV stations in the marketplace. When did you decide, or was it always in you that entrepreneurship, becoming, starting business was in the cards? When did you kind of start to. [00:12:45] Speaker A: Feel that burn or that itch late in the career? A couple of things. First off, it was like, no, it wasn't always in me to launch my own company. That just wasn't so that I really loved. When I got into the field, it was one of these things where it felt true and right really fast, and I had an extreme level of enjoyment in doing it. And it was probably the first time professionally that I felt some degree, some degree of fearlessness where it just felt like, okay, this is going to work and it's going to go, and you got to do this. And it started from nothing. And I just would. And so the enjoyment, the upward trajectory, and I don't take that for granted at all. Or there's no arrogance when I say that because that had never happened to me before, that sense of all of that happening. And so I was really happy. But there was two things that were going on. Now, I used to push back very regularly the fact, in terms of people commenting on my voice, I hated the sound of my voice, hated it. I didn't want to hear myself. And secondly, when somebody would come up to me, which I should have said this for the two truths and a lie, but the part is, the truth is for what I'm going to say any week, every week for a series of years. And I don't mean friends, family, mom. I mean, people will come up to me, like in coffee shops or restaurants, or they would just hear me. I'm also loud. So it's like people can hear my voice pretty readily. And people would say to me, are you in radio? You should be in radio, or you do this. And I would push back. I would always, no, that's not my thing. I'm in sales. I'm in sales. This is what I do. That's what I love, and blah, blah, blah. But as time went on, especially on the later side of my career, that I remember thinking, well, what if they're right? What if they're right? And what am I just ignoring it? So it just kept getting to be a heavier and heavier reminder. And then, so toward the very end, it was one of these things where I was starting to realize, like, okay, I'm not loving the corporate game as much as I used to. And I'll tell you what's a really good indicator when it's time to make something happen, which is the other part was too, the things that I used to love the most about what I did, I started to not like. And that was, like, the sign for me. It was the sign. Travel is one of my favorite things to do. And I traveled all the time. It was literally maybe three of the four weeks of a month I was traveling for a stretch. And traveling used to really energize me until it didn't. And it's hard to sound grateful. Like we were talking about never taking for granted. And I remember acting just at the end, oh, and I got to go to LA next week, and, oh, man, I got to go to Miami the week after that. And no one would understand. You just sound like an know, entitled clown griping about the fact that you're going to some of the coolest places and they're covering it, you know what I mean? And you're just showing up. And that's when I knew. That's when I knew I had to do something different, and I started to pay attention to what I was hearing and feeling. And so in 2019, that's when I launched Duffin Media. [00:16:25] Speaker C: Congratulations on listening to yourself, because think about how many times in our lives do we follow these rules or this path? Like, you're on the path, you got to stay on the path because you've been on the path. You've been on the path for so long. Why would you get off that path? And I struggle with that, too. Me and Joe talked about that as recent as the other day. Think about, I'm doing this because this is what I'm supposed to do, whether it's certain aspects of your job or your career path or anything like that. I'm reading a book. I don't know if you read the code of the extraordinary mind. [00:17:00] Speaker A: Have you read that a while back? Absolutely. Yeah. What did you clean? [00:17:05] Speaker C: What we always liked about is these bullshit rules that we force ourselves to follow simply because the culturescape and society kind of, we're trying to conform to this predictable behavior. And staying in your career, staying in your job, getting to retirement 62 years, getting that pension, those are all predictable behaviors. [00:17:24] Speaker A: Right? [00:17:24] Speaker C: But you didn't do that. You took that leap and say, you know what? I'm going to sit here in a job that I don't enjoy anymore, you're going to recognize that there's choice and you're going to take that step. That's pretty awesome. But you weren't scared at all. [00:17:37] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. I was scared, of course, in the beginning. But you know what? Remember that fearlessness that I was talking about earlier? There was a part of that, too. Now, look, this is what, at least I'll just speak for me, what happens is you launch the field, I go buy all the handy dandy equipment and all that stuff, and that part's great. But you realize, at least if you're me, and relatively quickly, it's the first time I felt excited. It was wonderful. No one's checking my calendar, and I'm doing this and I'm doing that. But then there's the sense that you are alone. Where I was never alone. I worked in big organizations. I always have said, still feel that way. I work better collaboratively. I always work better collaboratively than alone. So now I'm working from home office, Grand Central home office, and I've got my equipment. And when something is wrong, it's on you. And that's when I start to get scared. I don't know technical stuff at all. I didn't have to. Now I need to know, how do you fix things? How do you move things? How do you contact people? I've shared with others, too, that get thick skin right away, because I remember getting my first voice job. Oh, my God. It was probably two weeks after I launched the business. It was less than two weeks. I got a job almost immediately, and that was wonderful. And then I'll ask people the question, how much time do you think it took between job one and job two? And the answer? Seven months. [00:19:14] Speaker C: Wow. [00:19:15] Speaker A: Yeah. So be ready fiscally, be ready technologically, be ready in terms of building up your own internal support. And that's when you start to realize that's when you get scared. But what fixes it, what fuels it for me was there was a sense of purpose. There was the ability to be able to start to pivot in terms of the things that I was doing. The company was first a voice company, exclusively, a voiceover company, and then it morphed to hosting a podcast, and then it morphed to coaching people to do that, and then it morphed into other things. And that's where you talk about listening. It was really important, and I didn't do that right away, but it was really important to pay attention to the signs and the clues. And the opportunities for entrepreneurs. [00:20:11] Speaker C: This podcast is directed towards salespeople and entrepreneurs primarily. I mean, it's for everybody. But between Joe and I have some unique perspectives and experiences, and I guess talk about it, and maybe Joe, he's on budget Wi Fi, so I'm not. [00:20:31] Speaker A: Sure if Joe could. [00:20:35] Speaker C: Tell us. Talk a little more. [00:20:39] Speaker A: Oh, Joe. Heard that. [00:20:41] Speaker C: Joe? Joe, you can hear me? Joe? [00:20:43] Speaker B: Joe, I can hear, dude. I'm listening. Talk about what? [00:20:51] Speaker C: Talk about what John mentioned was the lonely factor. [00:20:56] Speaker A: Right? [00:20:56] Speaker C: You're alone. Yeah, no. [00:21:05] Speaker B: It'S crazy because for me, and it's been a while, I mean, I've been at this for, jeez, long time. But I remember distinctly, like, when you're a high performing executive in a big company, all of your time is accounted for by somebody else. And so you have these checks, like, okay, I have to be here. I have to be here. And then all of a sudden, you have all of your own time, and no one is checking up on you or whatever, so you just feel like you're in this huge void of, like, whoa, what do I do now? And maybe I should do this, but I'll say this, and I think that this definitely goes understated. If you have a sales background and you're an entrepreneur, I think that you have a much greater advantage because of the linear relationship between growing your business and what it takes to be good at sales. So you know that, okay, well, if I talk to X amount of people, that will give this many opportunities, and out of these opportunities, I will get this much business. So when that helped me to really compartmentalize that void and that loneliness, because then I was able to fill it with, okay, well, motion creates emotion, and action creates reaction. So that's sort of how it helped me in that time, because it's a huge leap of faith. But one of the things that's a hack that I think is like, you can start a business and not leave your current job. You don't have to just throw the baby out with the bathwater and be like, all right, here we go. Putting my steak in the ground. Open the door. Day of, and it sounds like John's kind of done. [00:22:54] Speaker A: Oh, now you tell, like, in the. [00:22:57] Speaker B: Beginning, you're like, okay, this is my business. [00:23:00] Speaker A: What do you know? [00:23:01] Speaker B: This is what I'm going to do. And you're like TikTok, like, okay, well, where are these jobs coming in? It's like, well, maybe we'll just pivot, and I'll start doing this because this will generate money, and then this will generate money. So there's like an evolution with a lot of these businesses where you start out that this is my main street, that I'm going to drive down, and then like, okay, well, this isn't covering all the bills, so we're going to branch out. But then eventually what happens is you grow your business big enough that you can then focus back on what your bread and butter is. That's sort of been my journey, where in the beginning, you're just like, all right, give me whatever you got, and then you can kind of refine it from there. But definitely trust the process of what makes successful in sales is going to make you successful in business as well. That's my two cent. [00:23:56] Speaker C: Tell me about. I want to stay on this topic a little bit because I do think it's something that entrepreneurs, especially people who are starting fresh with it, where it's just talk to me about what are some of the things you did to combat that loneliness. I want to say loneliness, but that feeling like you're on an island, because sometimes that can have an adverse effect. Right. You have your own echo chamber inside your head, like your own biases about what direction you should go in some blind spots. What are some things you did early on to make sure that you were getting perspective and insight from other folks? [00:24:30] Speaker A: Great question. So, first off, part of the answer goes to one of the things that Joe had talked about. I am lucky in the sense that because I have an extensive sales background, and anyone who does knows the ebbs and flows of the way that business goes, you don't close every deal. You don't land the big appointment each and every hour of every single day. So you have that foundation. And the biggest part of it is the resilience. And that's the part that immediately you get to draw on is, all right, the experience and the resilience of what you were able to do to overcome it. So I'm not equating lonely to sad, but the easy fixes are this. And by the way, I was doing this in. So COVID was really 2020. So there was a fair amount of time that COVID was involved in the business. But how do you fix it? Make certain you have contacts, you have a sphere of influence. You've got, you know what I mean? Colleagues. You've got. Talk to people, number one, include them. There's no reason to remain lonely and alone. There's no reason. And one of the big advantages, number one, is I'm grateful that I know a lot of people, and that's what happens when you're in business for over 25 years. But even if you don't, even if you're newer, you can utilize social media, use people, talk to someone, bounce things off of them, ideas, suggestions. When I talk about collaboration, typically what collaboration is, is literally just bouncing ideas off of people that you trust so that you can get feedback and ultimately make a better decision. So you can do that with whoever your group, your support group is. So, number one, just include people. They may not be the same people ten years down the line, but include whoever you got. Do you trust them? Do you respect them, talk to them? Hey, I was thinking of heading in this direction. I was thinking of trying this idea. What do you think? That's collaboration. And then accepting and listening so that you can make better decisions. And that, to me, helped me tremendously, which was, I preached the whole deal in terms of finding your best, most authentic voice. The easiest way to do that is to make yourself a little bit vulnerable. Hey, I was thinking this. What do you think? Because they may not be, if they really matter. They used to use the term years ago, your board of directors, so to speak. And your board of directors are just the important people in your life, whether it's professional and or personal. The vulnerability comes from you say, hey, I was thinking this. And they say, you know what? I don't know if that's a great idea. I think maybe. And it's your ability to be able to stand in and hear it and not get offensive. Like, no, it's more listen. And so that, in essence, is all collaboration is. So the part of being alone is so easily solved. And that's what I learned, was that, number one, get out of the house when it wasn't COVID. Number two, which was, there's networking events, there's business events. A colleague of mine in the field, who he was basically just starting out, had said to me early on, hey, I go to three events per week, and I'm like, where do you find them? Eventbrite, meetup. So be in front of similar people. Find people that are aspiring upward. I know that sounds like such high performance coaching cliche, but find people that are aspiring upward. Find like minded people, and they will help you. And that takes that away. And that's what I was able to do. That's what I was able to do and chose to do. [00:28:40] Speaker C: So I love the idea, the concept of building your own board of directors, like your personal board of directors. Again, just part of the birth of this podcast was Joe and I on each other's board of directors, whenever he has an idea, wants to run it by me, and I tell him it's the dumbest idea I've ever heard, and. [00:28:58] Speaker A: He does it anyway. Sometimes you need, but sometimes you're usually right, though. [00:29:04] Speaker B: I appreciate that. [00:29:08] Speaker C: So I want to switch gears a little bit to part of a facet of your business where you help people find their voice. Right. Right. As salespeople. Authenticity, integrity, all of that stuff. But also learning how to communicate, how to listen. All right, so that's all high level stuff. But talk to me about what are some of the biggest mistakes salespeople make when it comes to communicating? [00:29:35] Speaker A: Yeah, it's funny that it makes me laugh, but I love that question because it matters so much. And the fact is, if you're trying to command respect, biggest mistakes, not knowing your story, which is this, there's a big difference in trying to know all your bullet points or know your script as opposed to know the story. I've seen it in real estate. I certainly have seen it in communications. People are memorizing the wrong things, or they're memorizing nothing. And my thought is this, it's impossible to remember every word of a script. I don't care how good you are, because you're going to forget a couple of words and you're so focused on memorizing or really knowing. ICE cold, again, minutiae, you're going to slip up. You're going to sound unprofessional. You're going to sound unprepared. Soul, I coach people. I know the story. What is the in and out? Rather than memorizing a script, can you tell me? Like, I had an acting coach and I loved this part, and you would be going over like a script, and she would have you go through it twice. And then she'd literally be like, okay, put it down. Put it down. What are you trying to say? And the mistake would be trying to remember all the words. Instead, what the hell are you trying to convey? All the twists and turns. Oh, here's the opening part where I'd like to get your attention. And here's the part where I've got all the intricate data. And here, can you walk through? Can you answer? What is the intention of the story? The intention of the story is not to close the deal. The intention of the story is not because it has nothing to do with the person hearing it. What's the intention? What are you trying to convey all the way through? Because then you don't have to be beholden on each and every word and bullet point and be worried about. I remember getting my real estate license, and I remember I was deathly afraid of scripts. Now, remember, I've sold for over 25 years and was deathly afraid when they pulled out. Oh, here's 900 scripts we want. [00:31:58] Speaker C: I don't believe in scripts personally. [00:32:00] Speaker A: You can. They sound canned because they are canned. [00:32:06] Speaker C: Right. [00:32:07] Speaker A: And so we're focusing so much on content. When you say this, then I say that. And then what did he say? Oh, then you need to say this. And nobody's focusing on the authentic part. What are you trying to convey from top to bottom? Because the details all get factored in. Secondly, second big mistake, trying to motor through a presentation because you don't know it. Whether in communications, it's happened all the time. One of the things early in my career I remember was the dreaded research part. So here's all the facts and data of why you should be buying our television company. And we would go through all this heavy qualitative data. We would just cram it in because we felt like, you know what? The more data we can slam into this, the more convincing we'll be. And then the problem was you didn't know what the data meant, so then you would just motor through it and talk faster. Well, no one's buying it. And the third and the biggest one for me is when you're talking at people and not talking to people, it's the number one problem. If you're talking at somebody and giving some one sided speech, you can't be authentic, and it never gets received properly. And so the fixable things is you're always including people. You talk to people, not at people. Talk to people one at a time. Whether it's one person on a call, two people on a Zoom or riverside. In this case, focus on each person. The others will keep up. So talk to them, include them specifically. And don't worry that you don't have every factoid. No, it helps. But if the choice is know the whole story or know every singular bullet point, know the whole. [00:34:20] Speaker C: And Joe and I both worked in fields where scripts were. We sold coffee over the phone that was literally know. Objection. Response. Objection. Response. Even the yellow page business was very script oriented from a standpoint of training. And what do you say when they say, well, I'm not going to buy an ad, I bought my funny story. So when we were in the yellow page business, it was very early on in the. And people would say, well, I don't need an ad in the phone book. I already have a website. And the response was, Joe, do you remember the response? [00:34:54] Speaker B: Yeah. What, are you going to boot up your computer at 02:00 in the morning when you're standing in 2ft of water to call a plumber? No, you're going to pick up the phone book. That's exactly right. [00:35:05] Speaker C: And it was true at the time, by the way. [00:35:08] Speaker A: I love that response. [00:35:12] Speaker C: Trips and objections were a part of our business. But now I absolutely agree with you. You just need to be intentional about what you want the outcome of the call or the sales call to be. And from a sales perspective, it doesn't matter what you're selling. Ultimately, your job is either make someone feel good or solve a problem. You should already know in your head, kind of almost what you think from a global perspective. But the questions you ask are going to drive the script, right? You have to continue to uncover, uncover, uncover. And then once you truly feel like you've uncovered the real issue and you have a true solution, then you talk, then you bring the solution to the table. And you're right, it's not about just a monologue. You have to ask ton. [00:36:07] Speaker B: If you understand what the function of a sales script is from a top level down. It's like, okay, so I have this product and I want to get it out to the masses and I need to get as many people possible saying essentially the same thing. Right? So that's where these scripts come from. So that's the guideline. But the people who truly excel is, and same with acting, I'm assuming. I'm not an actor, but you can take that and you make it your own words. So the sentiment is there. [00:36:38] Speaker A: That's exactly right. [00:36:39] Speaker B: Your own. But what's really important that I've found in sales is that when you are a true advocate for the person that you're trying to, quote unquote, sell, they want your opinion on the facts that you have in front of you. So they're assuming that you've done your due diligence, know about their business, you know, the facts of the product or the service that you're selling, and you're just giving your opinion on as to, well, this is why I think it would work for know. Tell me what you. So to John's point, if you're know, they say telling isn't selling or whatever, all those expressions, but it's you people truly want to know what you think. Like, okay, well, you're the expert here. You're the sales guy. What do you think? I was like so in my own words, I'm going to tell you, this is either good for you or not good for you. It's definitely really empowering when you have your own voice. [00:37:40] Speaker A: Yeah, complete agreement. And I would say you both covered it, but I would just see, the thing is, none of what I'm saying replaces preparation. Right. You really have to be the one buttoned up in regards to what you know and the situation. And as you're referring to that sense of, am I solving a problem? You need to know that. You need to know the intricacies. Easy for me to say, but you need to know that. So none of this. The reason you get so buttoned up and focus on the things you need to know as opposed to minutiae, is because you can stand in the conversation longer. Really, the whole point of this is to. And Joe, you're alluding to it. Bring the other person in, allow them to fully be in the conversation. The client, the audience, the company, whoever you're speaking with, you want to be able to hear them properly. You want to be able to respond properly. If I'm so worried about, well, if they say this, you're not listening. It's just the basics of how well can you listen? The authenticity comes from being very well prepared, comfortable, and confident enough that whatever you're going to say to me, I'm going to be able to accept and prepared enough that I'm going to be able to respond in kind. And if I don't know the answer, I'm just going to literally say, I watched bringing up real estate right before I got licensed. I was with a colleague and I hung out at an open house. And I never was more impressed with this person than when they literally said to the people when they asked a question. I don't know, but I'll have the answer by this evening. Sure. He sounded smarter, not dumber. He sounded smarter to me. And how do I know? I looked at the two people's faces. The two people that came into the open, I'd looked at their faces and they were like, great. [00:39:46] Speaker C: As long as that question is not, is this house for sale? [00:39:52] Speaker B: Or how did you get in? [00:39:54] Speaker A: Right, how'd you get in? Wait a minute. [00:40:02] Speaker C: Why are you wearing my sweatshirt? [00:40:06] Speaker A: Because it's nice. But it was that. And so it's focusing and being fully present. That, like I said, for myself, was never easy for me. Early on, I was much more the people pleaser type early in the sales career and feeling like I needed to act like the harried server in a restaurant. Can I get you this? Do you want that? It took time and experience getting knocked around a bit, personally and professionally, to get to a point where I could feel more comfortable standing in on a conversation. And when I figured that out, that's when I realized how important the actual authentic part is. Do your homework, of course, but just. [00:40:48] Speaker C: Stay in salesperson, or someone who's playing a character of a salesperson. Right. Like their inflection, the words they're using, their mannerisms, they're not trying to create a connection with the customer. They're trying to act like a salesperson. Like a character. [00:41:07] Speaker A: Like a salesperson. Exactly. [00:41:10] Speaker B: Earlier. [00:41:11] Speaker C: And all that comes, obviously, with experience. [00:41:14] Speaker B: About your journey as an entrepreneur and starting your business and the importance of having a thick skin. And I know for me, when I was in a sales role or working for bigger companies, there was definitely, I had sort of an advocate feel for my clients, and I was like, okay, we're going to take this. This is the issue. I'm going to go to the company, and there's somebody in there, and we're going to work on this together and whatever. Talk to me about kind of that transition for you. When you have issues with customers, clients, and the buck stops with you, there's no other department that you can pass it on or you're selling them on. The reasons. Talk to me a little bit about that transition and kind of how you went through that. [00:42:06] Speaker A: Yeah. Part of it was simply getting more comfortable and right with myself early in my career, like I was saying before that, I was much more the people pleaser type, which, by the way, ain't bad as it regards to the clients love that. You may not be able to sleep so great, but the fact that the clients love, if you're just running over, can I get you more bread? Can I get you more of this? Can I get you a bigger loan? They're like, sure, thanks. But for me, I started out, and I was much more of a fear based, if something goes wrong, they'll have my head, they'll take my job. You know what I mean? Part of it was time. Part of it was the resilience that I talked about earlier was also from a personal vantage point, too. Like, I was the nut that couldn't come out of the closet until I was 42. It wasn't a big shock at that point to anybody, but I was going to say, but I'm holding on to stuff because I'm just thinking that if you find out, well, then I'm a fraud. And all that stuff. So I finally let that go. I put myself into some weird personal situations and had to went into recovery and all that sort of thing. Was terrified that I'm a fraud. And if I get found out. So working through some stuff gave me, I'm going to say, just enough confidence in the beginning, just enough in the beginning that I could be more transparent. I didn't feel like the whole deck of cards was going to collapse, or the whole house of cards was going to collapse if I didn't know an answer, or if I didn't solve a problem, or if I didn't fix your situation stat, so I could stay in the conversations longer, I could become a legitimate advocate. Joe, as you asked, when did you run? I could worry a little less and then eventually a lot less in regards to, well, if I do too much for the client, my bosses are going to think X. So I could be a whole lot truer, a whole lot more authentic. And so the compass, the right wrong compass as it relates to business, problem solving and it relates to business, became so much more clear for me. Right. So whether it was managing a team, I could be an advocate for them. I wasn't in the beginning. I felt like I was a terrible manager in the beginning because I was so worried about pleasing the people upwards that I wasn't helping the real people that needed me. So then that changed. When I felt comfortable with myself, I could stand in for my clients because I knew they needed me. But I just started to get a better central compass of, okay, no, I'm being taken advantage of, or they're pulling me. So the advocacy part became a whole lot more accurate, and it went a whole lot further outward as time went on, rather than protecting me and my interests and that stuff. So that's the part. Then it became more gratifying. And then you find you can make all the mistakes in the world, but when you're heading in the right direction, people want to help you. Yeah. [00:45:27] Speaker C: When it says you authentically want to help them, then they trust you. [00:45:31] Speaker A: Then they trust you, and they give you a whole lot. [00:45:33] Speaker C: Right? [00:45:33] Speaker A: And so it's not like I made no mistakes at that point. It's the opposite. But the trustworthy that you just said, ken, 1000% correct, they understand that you're in their corner, so you get a lot more latitude. And that's the part where the real gift of authenticity is not like what you're doing. You know what I mean? And then I did this, then I closed that. It's way more the sense that you're helping people. [00:46:04] Speaker B: I think the biggest thing, the numbers. [00:46:06] Speaker A: Often takes care of themselves. [00:46:08] Speaker B: I think the most empowering thing that a salesperson can do, or any business that's offered, is get a client, get a potential client in front of them and tell them, no, you're not a good fit. And once you can do that and you identify that I'm not just trying to sell everybody, then you have so much more conviction for the people that you know you can help because you know that you're not just out there taking everything that comes under the sun. So that's a really taking everything that. [00:46:38] Speaker A: Oh, my God. [00:46:39] Speaker C: That's a good point. That's a very. [00:46:41] Speaker A: Joe, you just said something. One of the things that was really tough for me, I'm still a work in progress in this regard, so I'm not going to act like I solved anything in this case. Right, exactly. But what I would say was pushing back. I was really bad at that and so deathly afraid if the client turned on me or reported or whatever. I do a live stream now and I'm intentionally taking that topic off. And I'm not going to out the people that I'm thinking about specifically, but I remember having clients that terrified me, and I was literally the one that is like, they would hang up and scream at you. And it was like, well, if I lose this, they spent a lot of money, so they felt like they just ran the show. And I remember it was like they wrecked a lot. Or I'll say it better, I wrecked a lot of my own weekends because I allowed them to walk all over me. And so even when they got what they wanted, my weekend was the one that was wrecked. They probably weren't thinking it builds up. [00:47:53] Speaker C: Too, which is not a fun thing. [00:47:54] Speaker A: Right? That's exactly right. So that's where it's like, one of the things that I think is really important in regards to entrepreneurs or whether you're working in a corporation, especially if you're an entrepreneur. Joe, as you said, the ability to say not every single person is the perfect fit for your business. Find those that are. Find those that are. And as I said, it's like, work harder with that sense of freedom, with time and not having the layers of bosses. Work harder to find those ideal fits or as close to ideal as possible. [00:48:32] Speaker B: Totally. [00:48:33] Speaker C: Well, this is all good stuff. I would love to take our podcast and start with the end and go backwards, because I feel like we work up to these really great segments of conversation. And I just hope that the people listening get to this point that they haven't turned this off by now. We're going to go with our two truths and a lie here. Joe, after listening to, he is going to give you what he think is the lie. Walk us through his logic. Hopefully his budget wifi is working. Let's see what he comes up with. So, Joe, we have generated $200 million in ad sales. We have ran six marathons. And the favorite color is green. Which one's the line? [00:49:21] Speaker B: So it always kind of trips me up a little when people are very specific with numbers. Because when you say, like, I ran six marathons, it could be seven or it could be five, or it could be. So that's. That's usually like a pitfall. We're like, nah, I did run marathons, but it wasn't six, so I'm not going to go with those because that's too tricky. And Johnny seem like a very honest gentleman, so this is making it very difficult. 200 million in ad sales. After this conversation, I feel that's very doable. I think that you might be underselling yourself there. It might be double that. But you don't seem that you're a boastful type of person. So I think that that's probably pretty accurate. And the only really subjective thing that we couldn't prove one way or the other is whether your favorite color is green or not. So I'm just going to. Even if you say that that's not the lie, you can't prove that it's not the lie to me. So I'm going to say that your favorite color is not green. [00:50:29] Speaker A: Okay, Ken, how about you listen, this is. [00:50:36] Speaker C: Right. I'll throw it out there. I kind of agree with a lot what Joe says. I'm going to go on the logic. Six marathons. I think you have run marathons, and maybe it was more than six or maybe it wasn't six. I'm going to go with. [00:50:53] Speaker A: That's the shoot. That's. That's fantastic. So, first off, I'm honored that you guys both had me here at all. That part was great. The correct. The lie is. Joe, you nailed it. My favorite color is red. It's on my logo. It's on a lot of my brand. It's on most of the things. Right. My favorite color is red. I have run marathons. Yes. First one was in 2016 in Chicago. Oh, by the way, I'm not going to bore you with running stories. Nobody wants to hear them. [00:51:26] Speaker C: Kenny likes to tell one. Kenny's got a whopper. [00:51:29] Speaker A: Where? [00:51:30] Speaker B: Philadelphia. [00:51:32] Speaker C: Where if you get a chance, there's an episode of selling the dream. It's on Apple. It's our podcast. [00:51:39] Speaker A: No, I know. I have heard, but I don't know. The episode. [00:51:42] Speaker C: The episode with. What was his name? Oh, now I'm drawing a blank. Arthur Scott. Arthur Scott ran the Philadelphia marathon 26 times. And I was fortunate. [00:51:54] Speaker A: Now I know who you're talking about. [00:51:56] Speaker C: I was fortunate enough to bump into him serendipitously while you ran center. Listen to that story. You'll love it. [00:52:04] Speaker A: Oh, my God. I'm so on it. That is great. [00:52:08] Speaker C: What's that? [00:52:09] Speaker A: Yeah. Chicago. Berlin. Germany. Miami. Philly. The big Sur marathon, virtually. And then again, Philly. So that's. We're the ones that I did so far if I didn't say it perfectly. The other part was, I have generated, conservatively, 150 to 200 mil. But that is, I'm going to say conservative, as you said. That's just the number I do give because I know I can back that up. But I was going to say. I don't know, but yeah, that's it. So. Oh, my God. [00:52:55] Speaker C: Nice work. Nice work, John. I hope you come back. I feel like some of the conversation. I have other questions I want to ask, so we'll save those questions for another episode. But thank you for spending time with us. Thanks for hanging out and being a good sport. We look forward to next time hanging. [00:53:14] Speaker A: Out with you guys. First off, I'd be honored to come back again in a heartbeat. Secondly, I would only invite you guys. Well, I'll invite you guys in any way, solo or duo, but I was going to say. But you guys are great as a duo. As a duo. So that's probably the invite. I would love to have you on mine as well, too. Although I need to ramp up the games and fun part so I won't steal two truths in a lie. [00:53:42] Speaker C: But hell, Joe's favorite game is one of wearing. [00:53:48] Speaker A: Okay, we might need to work on that specifically. But, guys, I'm really. [00:53:54] Speaker B: That's only on my. [00:54:02] Speaker A: I'm just. I'm thrilled. Thank you both for having me. It was an absolute blast, and I'd love to come back. [00:54:07] Speaker B: Awesome. We'd love to have you. [00:54:09] Speaker C: All right, guys, guys. Till next time. We'll see you later. [00:54:13] Speaker A: Thanks for listening to selling the dream. We know you don't want to miss. [00:54:17] Speaker B: A single episode, so go subscribe today. [00:54:19] Speaker A: Wherever you get your podcasts, and then make sure to share the show with your friends and leave us a review. Bye.